some people just got no respect

This is disgraceful, but a sad truth about the industry today.

Awful! I bet the Musical Youth sample wasn't authorised either. To think they are making money from this is disgusting.

With all respect to C2 and Planet E, but what is really sampled? I own the Throw 12" (On Dance Street Recordings) myself and sure agree that there are obvious resemblances with the "original" bassline - but c'mon, isn't quite generic?

The bassline on Throw is great. It is one of many reasons why the track is genuinely good and still playable today - but it does not necessarily mean that it is "liberally" sampled. With all those piano-roll ableton producers out there today, with no clue about the history of house music, but too much free time to make "fat tech beats" - I find it very likely that someone could have "reinvented" the same bassline as Carl did.

how more "liberally" sampled do you want they have looped the bassline & drums and just compressed the fuck out of it and put musical youth vocal over the top . must of took all of ten minutes to do ... the cheese mongers

Its not their first time either. Alex Kenji blatantly rips off Todd Terry aka Gypsymen - "Barabaratiri". www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL1yKbtgPUw&feature=related

This is not cool...

I was shocked when I first heard the "Gimme Five" track on Beatport a few weeks ago. Fooking laaaame. That's not music - that's bloody theft.

the vocal? is taken out from the song "pass the dutchie"
from youtube comments so its basically a mashup ??? and he is getting money?

I gave it a couple of more listens, and sure - it's obiously sampled straight off, assuming that the open hihat wasn't just another lucky coincidence (which I highly doubt).

Very unprofessional to say the least!

...that's just garbage...soul less, money grubbers who are the epitome of the state of affairs.

i dont know if this has been mentioned before but a friend of mine spotted that 'hold home' by santos is a complete, and I mean COMPLETE rip of colonel abrams-victim of loving you(gloo factory mix) on strictly rhythym.. How could he have got away with that. its not a bootleg, remix or edit. its just the song stretched out for 11mins. how do producers get so desperate in order to do this???

Well, you could also ask yourself how original Reboot's "Pra Dizer" is www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3J-uSHwpA Does one really create something new by adding "some fatter percussion"?

This is the classic subject of friction between purists and sampling-gurus. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle :-)

This is a great piece on the whole subject: RA Feature - Plagiarism in electronic music

www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1124

Reboot's tune was different. He sampled a old brazil folk song that was made by ricardo's unkle or something, they were asking for permission etc etc. I read that somewhere.

I am sure if this Kenji guy asked carl craig, and he for some unknown reason said yes ok, sample my tune, he wouldn't be complaining now.

Well i'm sure most business-minded guys (he's a former management consultant or something) would clear those things before putting out their work..

Alex Kenji, on his twitter, posted:

"you think that the original mix is 'paperclip poeple'??
if yes you're completely wrong as sample i taken comes from 1977."

lol yep. i never heard either of them but original still sounds better.

hey here's me rippin nouvelle vague

http://soundcloud.com/loopsky/summerloopgoesvocal

not a remix, edit, version, or sample of paperclip peoples throw but a complete rip-off... even if he is saying he used the original 1977 (i think its this www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlVVHfdTvJE&feature=related ) sample he still "stole" his complete track from craigs tune.

sad really , i wonder craig thinks about this..
and if the guy thinks its ok to do this then he really needs to see some consequences

Alex kenji is a complete liar. Yes Carl originally sampled the bassline from the break of loleatta Holloway's Hit & Run. But he did something really creative with it. Kenji just sampled a loop of Throw. Beats included. Nothing creative, just copy - pasting. And I'm sure he did it knowing that Carl couldn't do anything against it, since his baseline was based on a sample as well.
Only ignorant fools don't know the difference between creativity and stealing. Sadly enough current copyright law doesn't either and that's exactly what's wrong with it.

[Edit] Ha! Looks like the track's been pulled from beatport. Doesn't change my opinion about that site though. It's shouldn't have been on there in the first place.

If those are his synths on his twitter page (which I seriously doubt for obvious reasons), maybe he should think about making some tunes with them as opposed to ripping off classic tracks in the most blatant fashion possible.

seems to me like this is the whole label's policy. just check out the other "hot fingers" releases on beatport:

alex kinji - rabatiry = todd terry - barabaratiri
richard dinsdale - in tha music = phunkie souls - tha music
manuel de la mare - moloko = underground resistance remix for reese project (also sampled (and cleared/credited) by joris voorn for 'incident') vs. sister sledge - lost in music
...

this kenji-fag just took immortal Craig's bassline, and turned it into a fucking load of dumb commercial shit.

and yeah this label is fag, too.



planetE asks @twitter - WHY? cuse it sux, hard! yeah, this shit-remake sucks hard, and that's why it's #1 on beatport sales.


cmon, jus trying to be cpt. obviousness

ffs, it's fucking 04:43am, and I hear another stupid benassi's "satisfaction" remix, banging from my neighbors flat. WHY ? fuck yeah. cuse it suX

so a sample of a sample?

Listen to 80s-90s Hip Hop.....and I don't know what you guys listened to have ended up here, but you should also meet House music. You might find samples from other tunes...plenty of it. Its sample usage like in any other genre of music. House music is born/based/lives on sampling...

sample is sample , 2 tracks made into one is another thing

Surely you must concede there is a difference between what producers like Pete Rock and DJ Premier did with samples in Hip Hop as compared to the karaoke tripe of P Diddy and his ilk? Or Carl Craig taking two seconds from a Loletta Holloway track, adding drums, keys, etc and turning it into something new, compared with messrs Kenji and Scavo nicking said track and slapping a Musical Youth sample over the top?

If you play someone who knows Hit and Run by Loletta Holloway, Throw for the first time, I would be impressed if they spotted the sample. Play somebody who knows Throw, Gimme Five, and they'll spot it straight off because it's rip off. There's a massive difference between creative use of samples and stealing a track wholesale.

Worst crap I've heard in my life. What a shame.

He also raped Babaratiri. I strongly advise anyone not to have a listen to his "version".

Don't get me wrong, i'm not a fan the particular use of the sample, as they did'nt write anything interesting around the sample. Proper use of a sampling to me is when the sample has other parts and arrangement written that work well with the sample, and shows some musical skill by the artist who is limited by having to work around the chosen samples. Sampling is not exactly an easy way out of writing music, it creates limitations and boundries when making a track, whether the sample is .5 seconds or 15 seconds, and only the best producers can actually use samples effectively. Because they still have to write other parts that work well with the sample, otherwise its poor use of the sample like this particular one. So i'm not defending this artist or this track, just the principle for the artists that use samples well.


That said, like I said this type of sampling is nothing new, and its ironic that the side complaining took a sample themselves lol. I kinda hope P.E. was poked into making a deal out of this one. I don't like the 'Gimme Five' track, but this producer has'nt done anything that has'nt been done already with praise for the results. If we are to use the philosophy shared here, Pete Rock would be in the wrong too. You guys ever listen to Hip Hop? He and many other prolific Hip Hop producers take samples from more than one track to make their beats (gasp), sometimes the main parts are from samples alone. A bassline here, a stab hit there, a drum loop from over there..the core of the beat entirely from sampled material, with the main hook at the minimum coming from a sample, sometimes even the vocal hooks coming from samples. With the main changes coming from the cut point/looping point of the sample, the time stretching, and the addition of Vinyl noise during the sampling process. None of that is really rocket science level stuff, its all about the idea of what sample to use and what other samples or music is written around it. Whether its Pete Rock, Madlib, Dre, Premier, DJ Quik, Just Blaze...any sample using producer. And then you have an instrumental track like Bob James - Nautilus that has been sampled by more producers than you can count on your favorite hand. Huff and Puff and Knock over some magazine racks over that as well.

I completely understand the point you're making here, but I think the discussion is being lead away from the central issue people have with this track. These lads have lifted a sample from a legendary tune, pitched it up, compressed it to within an inch of its life and dropped a Musical Youth sample on top, the result being some incredibly unimaginative dross that they've passed off as their own track and are somehow making cash from it as a result. If they'd sampled Throw and done something truly creative with it, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. Even a straight edit of Throw, a basic rearrangement of the track, would be far superior to what they've come up with.

With Hip Hop, I agree, of course there is a lot of sampling going on, but at least they're creating something new and interesting with it. In this case a classic house track has been ripped off to make a shit house track.

I realise I'm probably coming across like a radge with an axe to grind, but myself and most of the people complaining about this situation love the original and to see a couple of lads take the piss like this does wind me up.

Maybe we should just agree their track's gash and move on? Anyways, apologies for the rant.

I agree with Daze on this one 100%. Sampling is sampling, I support it 100% in all cases. The only reason to be angry here is that someone made yet another shitty tune. It is especially ludicrous to be angry that someone sampled a track that was already 99% a fucking sample in the first place!!!

Bootlegging aside (which I define as selling unaltered recordings that you don't own while you make money from it in place of the people who do own that music), I fully support sampling, re-edits, cover versions, and all similar techniques/uses. The reason is that dance music is black music, and these are the modern ways of doing what black music has done forever. You can look at the idea of jazz standards, reggae "riddims", hiphop and dance music sampling (I mean, the entire genre of jungle/drum and bass is based heavily on ONE sample, the drums from "Amen, Brother" by the Winstons which was "just" layered with sampled dub basslines), etc and see that this practice has been common since day one. The truly ironic part is that the "originality" beefs many times come from white rock-centric critics who forget (don't know?) that even those brilliant white rock groups like Rolling Stones, Beatles, Led Zepplin, etc all borrowed from black blues and r&b artists (rock is also music of black origin!!). To act as if this shit is new and horrible is basically indicating that you have no idea how the history of this music's culture has gone.

I know that especially in dance music there is a ton of pressure on finding "new" music, but the reality is just not that way. It is through re-hashing, re-doing, re-editing, sampling, etc that we actually move forward. There is no one guy who sits down and invents totally new shit. He is always standing on the shoulders of those who went before him!

http://www.whosampled.com/sample/view/16394/Spankox-To%20the%20Club_Paperclip%20People-Throw/


welcome to dance music... not the 1st time or the last it will happen

Well said.

nice reference

agreed, except for that this time the complaint is coming from c2 and not a rock critic

True. Problem is that most of C2's recent music/decisions have been just as indefensible as his outrage is, so I guess it isn't unexpected.

Today I found out that there exists on this planet a DJ by the name of Alex Kenji and that master Craig is deeply unhappy or troubled judging by the vehemence of his Twitter outbursts...I'm sure after a few cups of coffee, private yells, head banging, it shall subside just like the anger I feel at losing my left limb to a shark, you see I don't like dancing with my right leg only but I have to acknowledge that the best thieves are sharks: one bite here, another there and never to be seen again...in the big scheme of things music fans remember the cream of the crop, the rest will be forgotten, a footnote in the annals of electronic music history. Alex Kenji who? There I've got amnesia already.

How about the current #10 on beatport...called My Lips....anyone else see just a shitty version of Madison Avenue's "Don't Call Me Baby"? Theres a fine line between sampling and ripping a whole song off...comeon...use better judgment.

Pure laziness really...Thank god i have never heard this track and have never been on Beatport in my life...Buying records filters out the majority of this type of garbage from ever entering my life

Madison Avenue's Don't Call Me Baby sample of Pino D'Angio's Ma Quale Idea