Completely agree, plagiarism gone made

Called out.

Douche bags

yeah....mr Saunderson's 100% right

sampling a single hit is something, i even would do it but as soon as it goes across a single bar it's too much... Some folks never will understand that and man there are millions of rip off's like that one... I'm just wondering if in that situation i would have named the originators of that crap, it's giving them too much undeserved exposure...

The sample they have taken is available in the Reason sound banks when you buy the program. Perhaps they took it from there and not heard the original track?

Any word from the sample pirates that are Supernova??

I was hoping 'master reese' was going to find out, its blatant beyond belief. here's my comment from 3 weeks ago on the january top 50 chart.
http://www.residentadvisor.net/forum-read.aspx?id=134454

Blatant Pirates!!

Where in the sound bank is the sample?

It's important that we police this type of piracy as a community and I applaud Kevin for call them out. Sampling a classic track and calling it your own is completely unacceptable.

merked

Good work Kevin!

sampling should be respecting.

but i bet y'all buy/make/play re-edits without giving a second thought. same thing.

nope! mark e's edit works imo are fair use, they are significantly different from the original. i make edits alll the time of the songs i want to play for dj sets, but i never ever would license or sell or distribute them. what's happening here would be acceptable if supernova had sought permission from KMS, or they had his blessing in some form or another. i once found a free netrelease i had made available for sale as a CD-R, and was just totally pissed. it would've been okay if someone had asked me ya know?

Quite an interesting letter...not to beat a dead horse but I think this practice has become accepted with certain labels (w+l for one) thinking they can get away with looping huge chunks of old records, adding minor percussion/production elements, then proceeding to take the cash directly from licensing and indirectly through gigs/increased brand valuation. Pretty lame if you ask me, theres a difference between creative sampling and wholesale robbery by releasing what amounts to a re-edit.

Thoughts?

I'm on the same page as you. I remember when Beatport emailed all labels to warn us about copyrights and risks, we had to agree to warn artists they should be in legal terms for using sounds they're put in their tracks. I'm honestly surprised w+l are getting away with what they do and regarding Kevin's, I find that sad.

Beyond all that, what I find silly is, this was made by italians. Whenever I go and read forums, people are complaining about italians in clubs, in productions... and then here's a "scandal" like this involving them. It's sad for my italian friends who are poorly represented once more. Oh well

there truly is a bottom line here. sampling is an important part of dance and hip hop music culture. but copyright laws exist for a reason and must be followed.

Armand and A-Trak basically took a Boney M song, added a kick drum and the words "Barbra Streisand" and took it to #1 in several countries. however, Farian and co get a writing credit and therefore a share of the royalties. (I work in publishing and have seen the songwriting breakdown myself.)

sometimes things do get blurry though. like with samples such as 'Amen Brother' and 'Funky Drummer'... these are definitely NOT public domain and I bet these breaks have been used countless times without credit

this is what the "fair use" legal definition is for. most songs utilizing the amen break are not plagiarizing as the resultant work is completely new.

Boney M "sampled" Nighttrain - Hallo Bimmelbahn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcXiMQ0J2So

I think maybe it would even be ok if they used the sample, but then did something else with the track, but having the sample as the main element is just unacceptable.

Daft Punk use large chunks of tracks as well.There is a Youtube video somewhere showing the examples.

Don't fuck with The Elevator.

Althought we're beating that horse again, I can't not feel strongly about this one: the Soul Clap stuff devastates clubs - and I'm hard pushed to not enjoy it in a club myself - but the credit for that should go to the vocallists and producers involved in the original records, which in that case were relatively succesful in the not too distant past. That didn't happen though, Soul Clap are now a "profile act" as a result, which doesn't really sit well with me.

And in general, my experience is that the Italian dance music scene is rather, how to put it, chaotic. I'm afraid to say that, again in my experience, it does have more than its fair share of unscrupulous operators.

I'm with you with all of this. Well said!

As great as sampling can be as a tool for the producer, it seems to have become a crutch for many wannabe producers out there. There needs to be a more conscious effort for younger producers to take a more active role in their productions by limiting the use of samples. Larry Heard and Marshall Jefferson and all the great pioneers accomplished so much and gave us classics without using samples. Any veteran producers out there should coach upcoming producers on the ethics of this sort of thing.

Quite right. Also I've heard that loop sampled on a few tracks from the early nineties. Whoever these guys are maybe the don't deserve to be pariahs. The likes of Soul Clap just take an enormous Stevie Wonder loop, throw some delay on it & call it an original.
I can see him being pissed off when the sample isn't cleared. But a public execution like this is no more than a big fish throwing his weight around.

Quite right. Also I've heard that loop sampled on a few tracks from the early nineties. Whoever these guys are maybe the don't deserve to be pariahs. The likes of Soul Clap just take an enormous Stevie Wonder loop, throw some delay on it & call it an original.
I can see him being pissed off when the sample isn't cleared. But a public execution like this is no more than a big fish throwing his weight around.

Of course it´s utterly disrespectful of those Italians, but I still can't help thinking it´s a little bit of fun somehow.

And is not only a problem of italians...

For me, using samples included in the software as main hook for your production is a little far from what i call "creativity", and of course the probability that someone can use same sample (also before of you) are very high...
Be original and do your samples by yourself...

Well said

just realised supernova have been at it again, lol

check out the drums and bass from the beginning of this famous todd terry track www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G-JxXOjKzM
now compare it to the start of this supernova remix of roland clark www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDjGlxOxiIk
bit trivial but you see that it wasnt a one off

to be honest I always liked Supernova's productions before I heard about all this... is it bad that I like Beat Me Back? I'm going to play it out at my next gig

from the artists themselves:

Hello friends, clubbers, Dj's and producers…yesterday looking for our things on web we have been able to read many forum about The Sound / Beat Me Back with big surprise. We are truly saddened and surprised by this news.
As you all know we are people who love music and this wonderful work ... but most of all genuine and honest guys.
Over the past 10 years we have worked with many artists, from the youngest to the most famous basing our work on respect for human and artistic of all. We feel lucky to work with some of the best indipendent labels of the world, we worked in our past 2 albums with major also (Sony Bmg) and our relationships with the highest positions of the music business and the largest music retailers in the world are based on a strong mutual admiration and respect and honesty gained over the years thanks to our daily hard work and lots of music produced by us, trying to create something of high artistic level always.
We work hard and with big passion every day for a long time trying to do our best and we have much respect for every artist and for anyone engage in music from the youngest to those like who have contributed to the history of electronic music.
We have produced Beat Me Back listening the loop from a sample library which contains sounds old school given to us by a collegue long time ago (he told us that everything in the library was free) , but in any case we have re played the loop with a the sound very close to the original 'cause we liked it.
The original track that we obviously we didn't Know was released in 1987 when we were children and we were not clubbers or producers for sure as you can understand.
We love and we are influenced by old school, we play many tracks of that period (especially since 1989), but we had never heard "The Sound".
We have not thought that the sample belonged to someone and after having re played it, we produced the track quietly. We have made it very transparent trying to put our feeling in it. Obviously if we had known that it belonged to someone we would ask clearence or at least we would have contacted the person concerned.
We are not so crazy to think to stole a Kevin Saunderson track without say nothing to anyone!
Anyway we hope we will find a solution very soon to stop this killing process on Supernova...this is not the first and only track we have done in our life and as many people know we don't use sample almost never in our productions.
We made a mistake and we apologize to everyone. But we totally exonerated of all charges because done with honesty , re played a sample that we thought free.

It was really disappointing to see the fury of certain people to judge those of us who make music with a lot of passion and great effort for many years. But it was wonderful that most people have supported us understanding the accident and celebrating the quality and passion of our project for the many things past and all those we try to do in the future.

Anyway we are in contact with Kevin Saunderson to resolve the situation peacefully and professional.

Respect for Music and for all of you who supported our work and our daily passion always.

Best

Supernova

Completely agree Man!!!!!

someone else also riped-off the sample of saunderson track "The Sound" www.discogs.com/Unknown-Artist-Untitled/release/2512713 b-side of this release use the loop from saunderson track
strange...

So it turns out it may have all been about the money??... Really??

i smell a pr stunt...
'ein schelm wer böses dabei denkt'

Oh, OK, Mr. Saunderson. No one can step on you, Alright? ...Unless they slide you a few dollars.

absolutley on the spot!

thats gay lol what are they gonna do have a detroit techno gay fucking session ahahahajjaajshjshja

hopefully they teach saunderson how to produce some real sample based music without any "real" and "true" detroit sounds.

I love how this article says that Kevin provided a stream of 'Beat Me Back.' Sorry, but that's not true. He might have had the song streaming later, I don't know. I didn't revisit Kevin's gripe after I downloaded the WAV. If Kevin changed it to a stream, I have no doubt that it was done once he found out he'd be getting royalties...so no more giving away the track for free. Glad I got it for free while I had the chance. Thanks, Kevin! I respect your place in history, but I like Supernova's 'mix' of your song better!

How any decent "house producers" hadn't previously heard the ubiquitous original is beyond me to be honest.

very disappointed...respect is running low.
and collaborating with them?!?!? Carl Craig works with Moritz Von Oswald, Saunderson with Supernova.
hmmm...

Well to be fair, he created the loop, he should get the credit and the cash. I really don't see the issue - sorry

oh, give me a break. there are YOUNG people out there (like me) who don't constantly worship everything these old-timers do/did. maybe i'm too trusting but i think it's perfectly plausible that a few musicians on the other side of the world weren't versed in saunderson's back catalog and just grabbed some samples that sounded good.

so if i got the story right (i can't be bothered to pay much more attention) he called these artists out publicly, and it turns out his assumption of malicious intent was incorrect... an assumption that can't help but make him look a bit egotistical. then he makes a point to say that he'll be raking in most of the profit... who considers this a professional approach to the situation?

I don't mean to be a pedant, however proffessional means someone who gets paid for their services, work or creations, as opposed to a hobbyist or amateur.

There may be some discussion about the way he handled the situation however.........