Brilliant read - depicts perfectly how I felt when I did a Saturday course over 3 months in beginners music production; sort of understanding the basics but not being able to get anything like I wanted it to sound like! Unfortunately I faded into the shadows and slowly gave up - this article has made me want to pull the keyboard out of the cupboard again!

Thanks Clarkside!

Well done lil one, proud of you. Not only for facing the challenge, writing about it but for inspiring so many people as seen on this forum!
Keep up the good work.. xx

i work in the devils industry... takes a demon to know a demon...

anyway, i noticed you didn't deny it... lesson learnt. never take an RA article at face value.

what about making student loans ? is it advised or not ?

Great read. Takes a while to get to the point where you're happy with what you produce, but you get there eventually (it took me several years, results here: soundcould.com/daragh99 for the curious...)

I pray this article doesn't fool young people into taking on student loan debt for completely worthless training. I find these kind of institutions to be completely predatory.

You can't be taught to be a producer. A good producer is a person who has lived life, studied music and spent years honing their craft. They can teach you what the buttons do, but they can't teach you how to make decisions. That only comes with experience.

If you want to be a producer, first buy an instrument, then spend your money on a small recording rig, then hit google and youtube. Everything you need to know is at your fingertips for free. These schools can't teach you anything that you can't learn yourself by playing an instrument and working in the studio at night after work. You can't buy your personal voice from a degree mill. That is something you have to create on your own.

If you are going to spend money on an education, spending it on a degree that you can do something with. Be a plumber, a carpenter, a teacher, or a engineer. Don't spend money in hopes of getting in on a dying industry. All the money is getting sucked out of music right now. It is like being in the slide-rule business a decade after cheap pocket calculators came out. The record stores are dying, labels are dying, distributors are dying, magazines are dying, pro studios are dying, and non-touring musicians are making jack shit right now.

Great article.

I notice a lot of commenters here talking about how they come from a background in music, but more broadly, I think I can identify with just learning a new art form in general. I briefly took Photoshop lessons in class years ago, and I remember how frustrating it could be figuring out the most efficient way to work with the tools, and never feeling like I was creating what I pictured.

A ton of practice past the course made me a lot better over time, so all I can tell you is don't give up, and good luck.

A good read for sure, so many of us have been and are going through exactly what you described there, good luck with your music

my laughter echoed in the night as I too recalled the sometimes burning frustration that comes with a learning curve as steep as coming to a grasp with the vastness of a DAW
thank you for exposing the emotional aspect of the process and revealing the human nature of electronic music production

haven't read through all of it, but I did skim through it.

I am always happy to see people pick up a sequencer. I wish you luck throughout your production hobby. Your first attempt is nothing to be sad about because that song at the end shows a lot of promise about the person behind the computer. I'm not being nice here, I'm just calling it how it is.

I really do think that making songs is 99% sweat though, so be prepared for confusing moments, shame, doubt, and anger, because only a small percentage of songs will be acceptable to your ears when you first start out.

Keep your head up and keep producing!

concur..but if you on a good creative streak with plenty of hassle free time, programming your own drums is the way to go.

girl takes course, Learns to make music on software, makes music on software, feels she can continue to improve, will keep tryin. the end.

Do music production schools offer courses using different media in regards to production, i.e. analogue synthesis, or hardware sampling? ive always wondered this as most courses i have seen seem to concentrate on using DAW programs.

As for all the folk saying "this article inspired me to make music", you have to ask the question why didnt a burning passion to be involved in creating music and expressing yourself inspire you?

@phaseghost....the groove from a tr-909 is unique and cannot be compared to novation sync'd to ableton/logic on their midi clock. The same can be said of the MPC. Its all about how you use your tools and I spent a lot of time in Ultrabeat and Logic and it was very uninspiring for me.

That sounds pretty condesending. don't think anybody who has taken an online course and worked hard wud say that they r not 'proper courses'. I took 1 and it was sick. Learnt so much.

renatoqu - Genuinely though, it is just coincidental that this review came out around the time a course starts. The online courses are four weeks long, so it is always close to a new online term starting!

A suggestion - if you have no previous music production experience, would it not be better to start on something like Garageband (itself, a sort of "Diet Logic")?

I found that the limitations of that program (not being able to adjust tempos of individual tracks, for example) makes the user push much harder to come up with something coherent. Anyone else share a similar experience?

Having said that, like a lot of people on this thread, I've had Logic on my external HD for a while now and have done bugger all with it, which is daft really. I agree with Hannah, it is intimidating, so perhaps one-to-one is fundamentally the best (or only) way forward?

What doesn't work for you may work for others. I won't do drums any other way. It works for me as I can see rhythms much easier in my mind, which translates perfectly to ultrabeat.

Thank you for sharing such an honest and open journey. I can relate on so many levels. The tracks you created and linked added so much to the story and take me right back to that same place in my journey. A great article.

Nice article, insightful and inspiring. A good read!

excellent article! i totally can feel your pain at times heh. as a producer, we cannot learn the correct process without some trial and error. making many mistakes to get it to sound the way 'YOU' want it to, is indeed all about the fun and the complete process

i learn something new everyday

good luck on your journey!

excellent article! i totally can feel your pain at times heh. as a producer, we cannot learn the correct process without some trial and error. making many mistakes to get it to sound the way 'YOU' want it to, is indeed all about the fun and the complete process

i learn something new everyday. knowledge is power and the more i know, the deeper down the rabbit hole i go!

good luck on your journey

Just want to say thanks to some of the guys on the thread who got in contact, I'm looking forward to working with them in the near future.

I think there's a common theme running through this: you can get so far down the road of learning on your own, but when you hit a brick wall, become creatively frustrated, or just don't learn that way, then human interaction and collaboration is important.

This is what I offer. This is not just a purely engineering thing, where you sit there and make the tea whilst I make the track for you. You learn at every stage of the process, as I believe that at some stage you won't need people like me who can facilitate the process, or show you the ropes. It'll be at its most meaningful when you can actually do it for yourself, stand on your own two feet.

It can be about the physical process of operating the software, but to be honest, anyone can learn that with enough determination and over a long enough timeframe.

What I can also help people with is an insight into the creative process...what is it you're trying to say as an artist? What's the message? Where does it come from?

If anyone can make electronic music these days, then why isn't every one doing it, and why aren't they all internationally renowned talents?

What separates the good from the great is the ability to get your message across.

Apart from the one to one training I can offer, I am also working on a few interesting projects educationally with regards to 2012, so please keep an eye on the website www.paulnolansound.com and I'll have some news soon

Loving the thread guys, very interesting!

Paul

My recommendation is actually start with something like Reason

It'll teach you the fundamentals of signal flow, how to route signals effectively, and how to think in terms of the logic process of knowing what is happening to each one of your sounds at every stage of the process

the manuals and help files and superbly written, and i taught myself a lot before referring to a college, SAE in Liverpool in my case.

If you have any questions please feel free to drop me a line more than happy to help

Hey, great article. I like the open ended conclusion and the sense of growing excitement as the weeks went on. Nice result and enjoyable read!

Great job Hannah, the track is a credit to your graft. As it started up it put me in mind of one of my favourite artists - Opik. If you have not heard them this might be of interest... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANv-5lsv4NM&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL0F9AE757698FF588

I work with Live for years now and still haven't discovered all the possibilities: a course like this would open lots of windows probably. Nice article to read!

Hi everybody,

Wanted to thank you all for such an amazing response to this piece. It's great to read the feedback and see how many of you have found it inspiring and pushed you forward to either begin music production or to pick up where you may have left of before...

However difficult completing the course was at times one of the hardest parts was actually agreeing to let you all hear the audio - I was expecting a lot of laughs, criticism and actually got pretty nervous about it being published in the end...so a big thank you for your kind words and positivity...

THANK YOU!

H x

POWLOW! we need to speak!

Hannah, well done! Another thing I would say is that a really good tutor is as inspired by their students as they are through their own creativity, sometimes even more so!

So much is dependent on learning style, and whether you are suited to online singular learning. At least as important as well, is the quality of the teacher themselves...it's worth it's weight in gold when you get a good one!

great read! Thanks!

Hey DN! I was just about to come in here and say a similar thing. It's cute and all to go to class and "learn how to produce" but frankly, the "realest" shit comes from those who just LOVE WHAT THEY DO and work hard at it for years. I would never advocate someone go get a loan to take one of these classes. I've known far too many kids who have "gone to school" at SAE, Full Sail, etc. to learn how to do this stuff, only to end up with a mountain of debt (or a big chunk of savings gone, that could have been better spent on gear and promotion), and little to show for it.

What I try to tell people is that as much as you'd love to go to school to do something like this, it's not the same as taking a deep interest in it and learning the ropes on your own. Nothing wrong with getting a mentor or friends to help in the process, but you'll learn best if you just are really passionate and DO IT.

Everything I've done is self-taught, and every single producer (like you) that I really respect just DID IT. Nothing is really that hard to teach yourself if you have the passion. It's the same reason I think all these DJ schools and whatnot are horseshit. Best way to learn is to do, and learn on the job essentially. If you love it, and truly, honestly spend the time and effort, it will come. Too many people think "going to school" is some sort of easy, go-to solution to resolve all their problems and magically become ace at something. That mentality pervades Western society as a whole, and is half the reason everyone is so hugely in debt. If you're going to pay for school, you should look at it (sadly, but realistically) as an investment that will offer a return. I have a BA in Economics. I had a full-time corporate job making good money for 5 years. But I spent much of my off-time learning the production ropes, and while it's not any sort of big income source, I feel like I made the right decision nonetheless, and I don't feel OBLIGATED to make shit, trendy tracks, or screw over my neighbor to get ahead because its my "job." I can focus on making the music I love, and on being creative, and it pays for itself in that regard, because it satisfies my deeper creative needs as a thinking human. And perhaps one day it will pay off materially, but if not, I can die with the satisfaction that I taught myself from the ground up and enjoyed every minute of it.

I'm not trying to skewer the schools or anyone who wants to learn more. But I'm offering a warning to those that think by attending these kinds of courses will just magically make you better. You have to want to do it. And you have to spend A LOT OF DAMN TIME to do it right.

It's also worth noting that taking classes or relying too much on others to teach you can have the side effect of putting you on a predefined path, using their techniques, strategies, and "rules." Part of the greatness of electronic music is that there basically are no rules. The possibilities are essentially endless, especially as the technology advances. Reading this and seeing how they teach these methods can be helpful, but it makes me realize how differently I go about the production process myself. While I appreciate pulling bits and pieces from others, I strive to keep my own approach and workflow...and while it took me a while to get that aspect down, I believe it helped in the long run, because I feel like I can work very quickly and get good results, because I've blazed my own trail so to speak. I'm not relying on "tried and tested" methods, that may be potentially less efficient (at least for me...creating music is not a quantitative process, and I feel school is better for quantitative skills, rather than a truly qualitative, creative process such as producing).

Some people like to get all scientific and engineer-like about producing music, but I often find their results to be lacking soul. Plonking about and stumbling across new things is how you get the fresh take on things. It's like the people who will argue for days about which VST filter is better for reducing low frequency phasing issues, or asking who uses what to get *this* specific result, and then going out and spending $1500 on some synth that you don't even understand and probably never will, because dedmowfive used it...or worse, you go pirate 300gigs of plugs and samples and don't even understand how to properly, efficiently sequence and mix a track from the start.

Simplicity, limitations, and self-pacing are important if you want to do this right. Keep it simple, stupid.

Just my 2 cents. Do what works best for you, just don't handicap yourself.

Wicked article. It makes me want to get involved! Iv been thinking about getting into production for the past couple of months. Im a complete beginner and wanted a place to start. Every1 seems to be using Logic and all I currently have is a laptop. I was thinking about using Cubase as I have an accesible copy but a lot of the courses and support etc seemed to be geared towards Logic and it seems its the "standard".

Is it worth me starting on Cubase and then perhaps switiching to Logic later if I become serious about? Are alot of the skills id learn in Cubase transferable to Logic? Or are they two completely different kettle of fish and its best me just picking one and sticking to it? Any1 got any thoughts/idea/help.

I obv dont wana shell out 2K on a MacBook and Logic from the off but would definitely be willing to do so if in 6-12 months im still learning away.

Also, as a follow-up, I do enjoy teaching people. I can see how Mr. Nolan could enjoy doing it, too, and use his skills and knowledge to help people pursue what they love. My comment is NOT a knock on him or his school.

I just encounter A LOT of people that talk the talk, and "really want to produce/make music" and would love for me to show them the ropes, but the follow-through is so weak and half-hearted that I have become very hesitant. There's been a couple friends that have followed through a bit, but I can't say any of them are truly dedicated enough to go hard on their own, and use the knowledgeable producers as a crutch to not do stuff on their own properly.

I don't know how many times I've offered people to "come by the house and kick it in the studio" and I'd be glad to help show them things or answer questions. Rarely do they take me up on the offer. Usually because they just lack the drive. For some reason, people feel that if they drop $10,000 they are obligated to do it, otherwise they are wasting $10,000. That's a sad way to approach music, and art in general, IMO.

A laptop is fine to get started. No sense spending more money on another PC. And there's also no sense in going with Apple, just because it's the trend. Cubase and a Windows laptop will you get started just fine. Just stick to it.

This is a recurring concern from a lot of newbies. And fair enough, there's a ton of misinformation, marketing, and hype to sift through. I own and have used both platforms for most of my life and definitely my entire production/DJ career (meaning Windows / Mac)...but I eventually settled with Windows in the last two years, because I got to the point where I needed a robust, dedicated, and powerful desktop to handle my projects...and I was NOT going to spend $2000-3000 on a Mac Pro or ANOTHER Macbook upgrade. I've been building computers since I was a teen, so it was a no-brainer to just throw together a $900 quad-core that out-spec'd the high-end Mac Pro desktops of the time. I switched to Ableton Live years ago from Reason, and thankfully, it's multi-platform so I am not locked into an operating system. This is my #1 beef with Logic. That and since Apple got ahold of it, and it likes to make drastic changes to its software/hardware at times when it unilaterally decides something is "out of date" you can end up having your whole workflow fucked, as is evidenced with the recent Final Cut debacle and the legion of professional video editors that flipped when Apple removed a load of useful features. Sure, maybe they're "legacy" features to some, but when you need to get a job done, it doesn't matter if it's what works for you.

Use what you've got. The less money you have to shell out the better...than you can focus that investment on cool stuff like synths, sound interfaces, proper monitors, etc.

The best advice that I could give that I wish someone gave me early on: KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LIMITATIONS ARE YOUR FRIEND

Pick a DAW (Cubase), and learn it inside-out. Learn how to sequence, arrange, program, and mix with it. Learn the shortcuts, the methods, the advantages, and the shortcomings. You can easily waste YEARS bouncing from DAW to DAW in the hopes of finding the "best" of which there is NONE.

Don't get ANY plug-ins until you learn your DAW and can make decent tracks from there. Practically every modern DAW (FL Studio, Reason, Sonar, Reaper, Ableton, Logic, Cubase, etc.) has all the tools in the box to get you from point A to point Z without the *need* for anything else. Don't listen to the elitists and the marketing. The built-in tools may not be the BEST or the EASIEST, but they are available and if you make the effort, you will get it down. Once you start getting the hang of things and learn the limitations of what you have available, you'll know what you need to change/add/remove from your setup. Nothing more senseless than endless gearlust and not using what you've got to its fullest.

Remember, too, that all those dope tracks from the '80s and '90s were made with far more limited and "simple" tools than what your typical modern DAW software has available. It's funny, because the longer I produce, the less shit I surround myself with...and the better results I achieve.

Not a slight on the talented guys at Point Blank, but if you need to 'go to school' to start making music, don't bother.

Everyone who has ever produced a worthwhile peace of art did so because they had to. They had something inside them that needed to come out, and they used whatever means available to them to make that happen.

If you're meant to be making music, you'll already be making it.

There's enough cookie cutter fodder out there to last a lifetime. We don't need any more, no matter how well produced it is.

Nice article which I've only skimmed through. One key point for me is that it's really not necessary to have an in depth understanding of music production to be able to have a valid and educated critical view on things.

It's like saying a DJ who doesn't produce can't make valid track selections.

Sorry but I disagree with this. A lot of people who I have taught and continue to teach now come to me because they are creatively frustrated. They have a lot of ideas in their heads, but they do not have the means, skills or understanding of the tools to release that potential idea and make it real.

Some of the greatest painters of all time went to art school. Some of the best music producers (not in the skewed terminology of electronic music) went to school. Nigel Godrich went to a music college. The list of examples are too vast to all name here.

To have the raw idea is one thing, to be able to refine and maximise the potential of the idea takes time, training, practice and patience.

It's like moving to a foreign country and not being able to speak the language. What places like SAE, Point Blank, SSR, and freelancers like myself do, is facilitate shortening the learning curve. In my case specifically, I am not interested in the 'cookie cutter' music you have referred to.

What I do is give an understanding of the tools, how they work, and what the creative consequences of using those tools are, for your art, your message. I aim to bring the individual's creativity out, so they can use the tools for their own ends, rather than subscribing to the 'conveyor belt of shit' that plagues and saturates the industry.

I think it's unfair and unrealistic to write off training entirely, like music production is some sort of innate thing that comes from within. To do that is to misunderstand the nature of creativity. It's a function of both art and science, of soul and technique. Only when the two come together in the right proportion does true art get made.

www.paulnolansound.com/training

A passionately written response / advert for your services.

Nigel Godrich had no choice but to study; studio equipment and studio expertise were completely out of reach for the general public. Now a fully functioning studio and all the educational materials you'll ever need are at the tip of your fingertips, and all for free or almost.

Put simply - if someone hasn't / doesn't put these endless resources to use without being cajoled by people like yourself, they are either (a) plain lazy, or (b) simply don't have anything genuinely worthwhile to say. In both cases, I'm afraid, bland and derivative music is inevitably the final outcome.

Furthermore, every electronic music producer of worth achieved his own sound through experimentation - coming up against a problem borne of his own limitations or that of his tools, and finding his OWN, idiosyncratic way around it.

THIS is where all producers of any note developed their distinct personal style, but I feel that production courses deny people these most important formative experiences. Why do I need to mess around with every knob on my synth, when my instructor will direct me? Why should I work out what EQ settings *I* might like, or how much high passing to use on this pad, when the instructor will tell me what works best? Why should I try something that nobody else is trying, when my instructor hasn't recommended it?

And again - what are we left with? More bland and derivative music, cluttering the 1000th page of a download store.

Like I said - at that time there was no free, downloadable software studio, nor was there an internet full of resources, so you just can't compare the two eras. You also can't compare the musical styles in question; modern electronic music is inextricably tied to the tools and techniques used to create it. And that's the problem - everyone is focused on HOW, the same technical tricks and tips - and not the WHAT and WHY, generating music that (surprise, surprise) sounds exactly the same.

Now, if only more people went, like Quincy and Herbie, to learn an instrument rather than how to EQ a bassdrum, we might have alot more interesting electronic music out there.



I simply meant that, given the above realities, anyone with that burning passion needed to make good music will also have enough passion to put those endless and freely-available resources to use, under their own steam, and with their own ingenuity.

That word, 'ingenuity', is really what I'm focusing on. Good music producers have it. You can't teach it, so I'd suggest all you're doing is filling people up with techniques that make them sound a little like a release from their favourite producer, but with none of the artistic vision behind it. And THAT'S the most important thing. The vision.



But you're orientating them in a direction, sending them down certain paths, and armed with the same techniques as everyone else. They need to find their own direction, their own path, and their own techniques - or they'll just sound like everyone else. Well produced, sure, well engineered, sure, authentic and sincere and interesting - no.

All music, not just modern electronic, is tied to the tools used to create it. It's been that way since the dawn of man.

You're still not seeing the point - just because there are freely available resources available on the internet, you are saying that all other means are rendered invalid, which couldn't be more wrong.

You ask anyone who I have trained, and anyone who I've worked with (and there's a few people in there who kinda know what they are talking about. I'm not going to name drop - look it up if you want), and they will tell you that they are no armed with a set of tools they now use for THEIR OWN ENDS, for their own creativity.

Why?

Because I do not teach the set way or standard. I show the concept, what is possible in certain circumstances, and how those tools work.

It is not merely 'push this button, then move this fader and you're there'. Frankly, that would bore the shit out of me, and I'm not interested in that, never have been. I'm interested in developing the musicality in people, their abilities, their attitudes, in order to realise their own ideas. Which is exactly why I go into deeper context about the how and why:

1. Not just how it works, but why does it exist?
2. Not just 'do it here', but why do it here? What's the point? Does compressing with a sidechain to a kick actually get you to where you want to be? Or should you experiment and think 'out of the box' to think of just one example
3. Cross referencing different techniques and EXPERIMENTING FREELY in order to produce new sounds, sounds that are unique to that person, and provide inspiration and a palette of sounds they can develop.

The problem with your 'orienting' statement at the end of your post is that if people were not given some form of direction when they are learning the tricks of the trade, it becomes anarchy.

There are rules to follow, but not be enslaved to.

The best piece of advice I ever got in music production was from my lecturer on my first day at SAE.

"Learn all the rules, so you know how to break them all" and that's what I have lived by as a producer, artist, trainer, lecturer, DJ, composer, whatever you want to call me!

So ironically, after all that, we are both arguing from the same side of the coin. I am equally as frustrated and bored by the amount of contrived electronic music there is out there, by the lack of quality control. But not every painting is a masterpiece. People make a living from being functional but not renowned artists.

Nothing can be taken away from them, but they can be encouraged to think differently...

This is the difference. There are 'push the button' trainers, but then (if I may be so bold) there are people like me, trying to make a difference by offering the WHAT and the WHY, as well as the HOW...

Great piece. A lot of music articles out there these days are just not worth the read. This is absolutely not one of them. Thank you.

nice article

Geez, I don't think I've ever seen an article here with this many remarks and not giving away to bickering. Speaks volumes, huh?

Anyhoo, can't help but chime in. Every seemingly repelling element of this piece I saw upon opening it-the diary format, the length (I like a long read, but assumed it'd be tedious), and special treatment Ms. Brilley received as a journalist for RA-evaporated quite beautifully as the author is quite the talented diarist. Her earnestness, self-awareness, and honesty were extremely refreshing and made for one of those pieces that will mean something different to everyone who reads it.

Thanks for your help 1trickpony. It is pretty confusing with so much information out there. My main fear I guess would be spending all that time learning a DAW which does not offer the capabilities of software such as Logic. I also see that alot of places such as Point Blank are more geared towards Logic and I guess its the fact that so many people are using Logic makes me instantly think it must be a superior software. The author herself states that on showing an Ableton user Logic she was blown away by the added functionality of the software.

PaulNolan, you seem like a passionate guy and if i every wanted to take courses in production you would be the kind of guy i would go to.

Interesting that you ask not how something works but why it exists? bit of a dangerous one that as most things, certainly software solutions exist to make money, the only way they can do that is to compete with in the market and offer equivalent or better solutiopns to the rest of the music making software thats out there. i mean some of this stuff is very very expensive indeed, whether its worth it or not is a different matter and down to personal opinion but electronic music is hardly the domain of working class folk.

Getting a computer is very expensive let alone software and then training. This isnt a comment on courses, just a comment to say that maybe its just not worth it. Thats where dusks ingenuity comes in, getting what you can and being creative because of a burning passion and desire for music. Think about the music that has been developed from hardship and basic equipment, and a real desire to express emotion, compare to the amount of uniform unidentifyable trash there is now.

Its no coincidence that some of the best early music came out of impoverished environments, brimingham and detroit and berlin. Alot of this music had nothing to do with training, everything to do with Gumption

To be fair, the author is a very green newbie. Her opinion on added functionality is shallow at best.

Ableton also happens to offer a lot that Logic doesn't.

Loads of top producers use Ableton (and Logic...and Reason...and Cubase). Like I said, I would pick whatever you feel you would like to start with and stick to it. If you stick to it, it won't matter what you go with. And more or less, any missing functionality can usually be substituted with an external plug-in of some sort.

I don't like getting locked into platforms. I appreciate the flexibility Ableton has in this regard, in addition to all of its great features and its industry-standard warping/time-stretching abilities. That alone is a worthwhile benefit over Logic, IMO. And it's very geared toward live performance usage as well, another aspect which Logic lacks.

But I'm sure there's some stuff that Logic does better as well. But if you don't already have a Mac, it's going to be a *very* expensive switch.