Over the past few years, UK dubstep DJs have turned to house music as the basis of their sound. RA's Andrew Ryce talks to Ben UFO, Pinch and more to find out why.

Great article, and very timely. I'd wager that there is a great deal more to speak of geographically on this, vis a vis the patient to the point of frustration Berlin course of musical development versus the chew up and spit out a genre every week hyper-morphology of London.

These guys right here, this UK movement right here- these guys "get it"

They are clever young producers, with a lot of technical saavy and they present their vision with flair. They are musicians as well as partygoers, and they combine the musical genres and musical lifestyles with class. THEY DO IT RIGHT.

Very insightful article, it's always comforting knowing that some choose to embrace all walks of music. Though it's important not to close any doors whilst expanding ones musical tastes - eschewing whole genres is always a counterproductive thing.

My thanks to Andrew for the shout. Great piece.

This just makes me really sad

Of course there's good House out there, of course House can be gully, but in the UK context I can't help but see this move towards techy-deepy-polite piano House as a massive retrograde step, a watering down of vibe, a loss of ambition and an unnecessary compromise that surrenders the ground of ruff energy to the Skrillex lot.

I want to go to a club and hear forward thinking music which makes me bust a gunfinger and demand a wheelup, not some well produced mild-garage-influence-shuffly 4x4 shit to tap my feet to.

If anyone is interested in hearing that Gemini mix:
soundcloud.com/r_co/spencer-kincy-aka-gemini
one of the best things I've ever heard.

Good article on everything that is wrong with this deadout graveyard of a 'scene'.
The bit which pissed me off the most was the fact that the following quote was emboldened and put in a massive font for all to see.

"If people think there is a 'rudeness'
lacking [in house] they need to look
a bit further below the surface." - Midland

Er, yes. For example: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DySbgZFO7Lc

what's your point? a question was asked and responded to, and you seem to agree with the answer.

It's nice to see this crossover zone being addressed in depth, nice work Andrew.

Glad you mentioned Bristol (of course) - though I do find it's rarer than I'd like to come across tracks that span the axes in a way that shows real personality and depth, there's also the sense that there's a new raft of producers bubbling up with new ideas at the moment. Bristol's a great example of that - Kowton's new tracks are wildly brilliant, they've got early DMZ depth, big grimey strings, scuzzy edges and a slow four-to-the-floor pulse going on, then there are other West Country producers like El Kid, Kahn, Tessela and Vessel who are doing a good job of keeping the 'UK' aspect firmly embedded within housier templates. Then, of course, there's those around Hessle, Numbers, Swamp and 502, who are doing similarly good things.

There is, I think, a risk of stuff ending up over-polite (something I've found about a lot of Hotflush material lately, barring George Fitz actually), or of UK producers consciously shrugging off homegrown influences - it would be a shame to simply see a load of people from over here doing Underground Quality-style rip-off tracks, for example - but as it stands there's way more good than bad within this zone. Plus Ben's sets at the moment, and Floating Points, Jackmaster, Oneman, Pev, Loefah, Pangaea - they're all a whole lot of fun to dance to.

Really hate the term 'bass music' though, it just feels so massively unspecific.

Good feature.

I think the point is that Riddem Box is the perfect example that "house is" definitely "missing something "bass music" can provide", UK Funky showed that the UK can do House music and do it well, but only when it injects it with a heavy dose those elements that have always made 'Nuum music so peak - ridiculous bass, syncopated beats, cheesy gyal vox, ragga samples, 'rudeness' in a word. And funny enough, though the scene's died out, there's still a constant stream of gully, exciting UK Funky tracks being put out all the time.

There's also the total whackness that is UK guys looking over to Chicago for influence in the year 2012 and seeing.... Deep House!?!?!?!1 While Footwork is making the most futuristic, ravey music since rave?

As I say, I'm not parring House music as a whole. But what this article does which really gets me is argue that there's no problem with 25 years of pirate culture being sublimated into the world wide House scene. I think there's a big problem with that. Some of the end products of this 'Bass music' thing are good, even great! I love 'Your Words Matter', Midland's Aus EP, and a lot of George Fitzgerald's stuff. If you are actually Ben UFO then I also have had some of the best nights of my life to your sets.

But as I say, to say that taking watered down elements from rave/jungle/garage/dubstep/grime and putting them on slightly jazzed up House tracks isn't, as I say, a massive loss of ambition, a downgrade in our ability to conceptualize innovation seems totally deluded to me. Worse than that, accepting that this is as good as it gets, or even, that it's all going great, means we loose the ability to demand more.

@Scurvydom: What do you mean by UK guys looking over to Chicago for influence and seeing deep house? As Pinch says, many of the producers/ DJ's weren't around the first time when Chicago house was a full force. I don't see any problem with looking back on one of the best genre's in dance music and playing it today, infact I praise it, so long as its done with care and attention to detail like Ben UFO and Jackmaster do, they can blend in many genres of music seamlessly.

Great piece!!

I can totally see the dangers of the overly-polite-watered-down creeping in, there's a fair bit of that knowcking around. BUT...

There's some amazing techno coming about right now...look at Ziro, Artifact, Braiden, Paleman etc. All making amazing stuff with their own identity.

What I'm saying is that Deep House has been around as long as House, and has always been one of the most conservative sections of the House scene. I have no problem with people looking back at old music, rediscovering it. I have a problem with a scene, the UK scene, which has always been restlessly futurist, turning - en masse - towards one of the safest genres in Dance music. And I find it painfully ironic that people are turning to this Chicago scene when Chicago is currently, right now, producing the most innovative music in the world in the form of Footwork, and influence I would be more than happy to see UK producers mimic and eventually warp into their own.

Not to put a dampner on things but to sound new and fresh in 2012 is not an easy task. You can either go experimental and test new waters, or you can use well known methods of producing, but put your own stamp on it, which to me is what Hessle, Swamp, 3024 etc are doing. I mean you don't want to alienate the people who go out and buy your music, listen to it and come to see you spin by playing something thats so out there it just won't work on the floor.

scurvydom, sorry i know this isn't a very constructive comment, but you don't appear to have the slightest clue what you're talking about

The idea of footwork being "innovative" is pretty ludicrous.

House music has always been about a combination of beauty and energy. Those who think its all polite are clearly just misinformed. That said, some of the shit UK dance music does is just ridiculous sounding more than it is rude. Jungle back in the way was always more diverse in mood than any of the other genres that came since from the UK. It's probably to the benefit of these current genres to adhere to house and techno since they clearly have a timelessness about them that UK dance has clearly not.

When a genre is only about making beautiful music, that's when it's going to be successful for a long period of time. "cutting edge" or "forward thinking" ironically enough ends up being far more easily outdated due to the faddishness that comes along with that. 1994 house tracks still sound very relevant now, doesn't that mean it nailed "forward thinking" pretty good? And you almost never hear 1994 jungle tracks out, so surely they failed, right?

Childrentalking: really? Trolling on RA? I'm zero percent interested in getting into a 'no ur stoopid' flamewar, so if you want to engage with my arguement on a level that contains any content whatsoever i'm more than happy to discuss the vast holes in my argument.

Pipecock: no, yeah, totally. House is better than Jungle. You're very welcome to keep it jus plz leave it out of my scene thnx.

...

Josemclean: what i'm saying is the idea that there's experimental music, and then there's dancefloor music is already a settling for less! What about jungle, 2 step, dubstep? All of which were totally out there AND tore up the dance. And I don't buy it anyway: when I last saw Hessel at Fabric it was Kode 9, playing all footwork and jungle, at 5 in the morning who teared up the dancefloor WAY harder than all the 4x4 stuff the hessel guys played! That's my main criticism of UK bass house - it does nothing for me as a dance floor experience.

@benufo - my point is that Riddim Box is an example of UK house music that IS rude... but if Midland's discussion of rudeness relates to the current 'bass' scene then that's 100% a joke ting. Even if he is just talking about Ghettotech or whatever, which I could still back to an extent, that is nevertheless a different kind of rudeness to the kind we can trace back through our musical heritage (Grime, Jungle, Speed Garage etc) and in any case, I can't detect even a tiny bit of rudeness in his tunes (which is not to say I dislike them!)

I do, however, massively dislike this politeness engulfing the scene as a whole. I used to check Boomkat daily, now I've practically abandoned it. Where are the bangers? The last UK anthem I remember is probably Night Hunter!!!

It seems like the scene has become entirely polarized now. Boomkat is filled with largely bland, polite, housey, 'experimental' post dubstep tunes... if you want music with that UK hardcore vibe you have to go to Itunes...

If it's house, then the sound we need to push is Jook10, Sunday Roast, DJ Tazer, DJ Spookz, DJ Eastwood...

'The idea of footwork being "innovative" is pretty ludicrous. '

Er... explain?

@JoseMclean - it's not necessarily about sounding ridiculously fresh or whatever, it's just about pushing in the right direction. I think there are a lot of disillusioned people who don't want UK dance music to turn back into IDM... Jook10, Sunday Roast, DJ Tazer etc. they all sound fresh - but they're not afraid to use ravey elements, bait elements, harder sounds, obvious beats, whatever.

man, these kids are late to the party

How so?



Putting aside the fact that once can hear jungle being played, are you saying that the more a type a music is played out, the more successful (in this context, better, I take it?) it is?

Great article. I'm living near Berlin, so Techno and House is all around me. I always liked the freshness of UK sound, it seems to me that they don't care so much and that they are more into experiments.

I really like to listen and play these tunes in the middle of house and bass music.


You have not listened a lot to Dubstep or so called Bass Music, right?

@FranklySick: I think the thing we have to be wary about when using harder sounds is that it may fall into the now dubstep category. I mean these producers and DJ's have moved so far away from that sound that they don't need or want to be heading down that path. What about Boddika? He's making some bangers. Don't dismiss these DJ's just because they're playing older shades of house music. I've heard them play stuff on Relief... It doesn't get more rude than that.

An hour in so far and this is incredible house music, cheers for the link man...

I really hate to complain about the content on the website because I think a lot of it is fantastic and I get so much out of it but I can't understand why journalists and commentators persist with these banal digressions into labeling music as this or that.

Discussions about what is house or what is bass music or where do they meet and what do we call them, which are the subjects of the final 3/4s of this article are as tedious as a sack of Jane Austen novels and a dreadful waste of facetime with such interesting artists.

There was a similarly mundane name game in the last RA roundtable on the Exchange series where the panel attempted to define Nicolas Jaar's output to date. It amounted to an almost comic scenario with 4 knowledgeable music commentators tying themselves up in knots, calling it this and then that and then this but oh wait it might actually be called that.

And this is the problem with music journalism, and especially the electronic sort, in my opinion: leaning so heavily on what a piece of music should be classed as to the point that it becomes a large, very visible crutch propping up small blogs and some large websites.

To paraphrase a message I recently saw scrawled on a subway wall, labels are for tinned fruit, not for music.

scurvydom- you know there is a decent amount of heavily footwork-influenced 'bass music' coming out, right? it's not all housey.

and the footwork influence sits ok with some jungle, some funky, some dubstep. It's all being done. So, you know, don't get too bummed out =)

It all comes back to house in the end no matter what genre is created

They maybe should produce house as well ^^ just kidding.. really good article, thanks

i have been waiting for an article like this for some time now, very good read! I think it puts the finger right on point.

Regarding the "bass music" i actually prefer it over calling it dubstep, even though it is a vague and wide description of the music, because when i get the question "what music are you in to?" and I say "dubstep", 90% of the time people say "oh yeah? I love skrillex too". I can't stand it.

Also big up to whoever made the pictures to this article!

"Not everyone understands house music..."

Sorry, couldn't resist x

@JoseMclean - that's the issue!!! All these producers appear to be terrified by the presence of wobble etc, so to distance themselves, it appears they feel the need to make their music more and more IDM, more classy, and as a result, imo less immediate and fun...

I agree with Boddika making 'bangers' but it's still way to technoid to fit with the junglist energy I want from UK dance music... that could just be me tho

I just want to say: Bass House Techno Idm Broken Beat Dubstetp Acid Disco ?

... CALL IT MUSIC!

PLAY and BUY VINYLS*

This all reminds of people moaning on grime forums in 2003/4 that this Dubstep stuff is slow and boring and grime is so much better because it's ruder and has so much more energy. Ignoring the fact that 99% of grime of that (or any other) era just wasn't very good, not unlike the "rude" house stuff that you're recommending there. All the successful pushing of that sound would achieve is a return to the 2003/4 era of half-empty clubs with zero atmosphere and I'd rather do without that thanks.

O dear, so RA has finally done a piece on this underground movement. Must mean that it is nearing it's peak of popularity...

Hopefully the scene won't become saturated with bandwagon hopefuls... Don't let it happen Scubs!

P.s. I've heard Ben drop Coki - Tortured so saying there is a lack of rudeness is bollocks...

I don't really know where to start with this...

What is your logic behind saying that pushing a sound with actual dancefloor and junglist energy would result in half-empty clubs with zero atmosphere!? And if we're talking about Grime, have you seen the videos to Eskimo Dance lol?

Also, what do you mean by 'Good'? Are you talking about production values?

Night Hunter was made from bait presets on Fruity Loops but tbh I'd much rather the scene was like that than saturated with boring house-inspired overproduced music.

IMO it's just like Future Garage. Future Garage took what was rude, organic sounding music, quantised all the drums, dumped loads of washy synths all over it and basically turned it into fassy dubstep with a robotic 2-step beat. What is 'Future' about rinsing a sound that El-B perfected back in the early 2000s and doing it less well? Synths lol? I think the same applies here.



I'm not criticising people's DJ sets as much as the scene as a whole (the new music). That said, I certainly don't think it's worth celebrating people playing 2006 Dubstep in 2012!?

The point is that there is a massive lack of new music that has any rude, junglist energy to it and that is why I first took issue with that Midland quote. Playing music from 2006 isn't helping that. Nor is making house or techno your primary influences.

This is of course, all providing that you want actually want the UK scene to have a junglist energy to it, because if you all want the clubs to slowly turn into Berghain then there's no point really discussing it in the first place...

I'm not even parring Berghain. I have no issue with Techno OR House. But I do have an issue with the UK Dance Music scene losing those elements that made it so compelling in the first place

@FranklySick: The scene in the UK has moved on, and will continue to for many yeras to come. Think about how much UK music has progressed in recent years; Hardcore, Jungle DNB, Garage, Speed Garage, Grime, Dubstep, it continues to move at a very fast pace, especially in London. If we were still in the junglist days we wouldn't have moved on at all, and wanting to go back to that rudness that you crave would be going backwards, not forwards. Like Scuba says;" it would return to the 2003/4 era of half-empty clubs with zero atmosphere". I think the UK scene is the best its been in years, everyone doing their own thing, but joining the dots close enough that it can be enjoyed by all. (well nearly all).

Point about the hardcore continuum is the rudeness has persisted throughout all the genres - that's what it IS. It IS that energy.

As you mention, however, there ARE good things about the current scene and its accessibility. And in any case, Grime is doing its thing outside the scene now anyway, so I can make do with that...

I just wish more of it wasn't so dreadfully boring.

Where is rudeness and how do i get there?

@andywelt - listen to house trakcs form any of the artists mentioned then compare NB Funky - Riddim Box or Fis-T - Nighthunter

"I've got no issue with foreigners, Guv'nor; I just don't want them in MY BRITAIN!

BRITISH MUSIC FOR BRITISH PEOPLE!"

the fact that tracks like that can co-exist happily with other strands of house music is part of the reason why this conversation is happening. i played both those tunes alongside stuff from the US and Europe, old and new.

hardcore continuum music doesn't have a monopoly on 'rudeness', and that's never been it's sole function as dance music. house music itself is a crucial part of that continuum from uk acid through to hardcore, jungle, garage, dubstep and grime, and it's influence can be heard throughout that continuum, not just as a starting block. where do you think UK garage came from? where do you think jungle techno came from?

to celebrate in the reduction of UK dance music to tracks like riddim box and night hunter is to miss the point entirely. the first DJs to really push that sound were playing tracks like that alongside kenny dope, karizma, osunlade etc etc etc, and the producers involved were making beautiful, sugary vocal tunes just as often as they were making the darker, stripped back stuff you seem to prioritise. just as those producers and DJs realised that different vibes could work alongside each other, one of the best things about now is so many people showing a willingness to look beyond convention and to see past the restrictions that this thread prooves people routinely build up for themselves




as an aside, this piece might be themed around a broader scene but the producers who took part can only represent themselves, and it's not their fault that a wider cross-section of artists weren't involved

I don't disagree with the history, I'm perfectly aware of both the origins of UK Funky and the hardcore continuum, I just don't think anyone really thinks that the curent scene is nu'um music anymore. It branched off at Dubstep. All I'm saying is I think we've gone too far down one line to the extent that the more nu'um-y music that I'm sure some people want to hear isn't getting played.

Simply speaking, compare eskimo dance, a bait dubstep rave or a bassline dance up north with midstream london clubs and you'll see the massive gap between the two.

One of my favourite things about UK Funky was the mash of gyal tunes with darker stripped back productions. But when Boomkat rebranded their section UK Funky they started putting all this future-garagey stuff into the UK Funky section, everyone jumped on that. But no-one was making stripped back, raw, garagey sounding stuff, everyone was making super slick, super well produced synthy stuff (excluding people like Slackk) and that's pretty much the stuff I heard getting played out.

The fact that everyone's playing a massive mix of stuff is good in some ways, but its not without downsides. Few DJs have the proper singular vibe, representing a scene, the kind of set that will push things forward. It's lost that linearity. Mixes will move out sideways and encompass everything, including lots of old tracks. While I love your sets and for example Oneman sets, we need sets and more importantly NIGHTS with a proper obvious vibe (for example dejavufm.com/2012/01/12/djeastwood-1st-show-of-2012/). It sounds like a nice idea to be able to go to a night and hear everything, but in practice... its a loss of identity and direction... it feels and sounds like the internet...

Sorry if this is impossible to understand it's difficult listening to music and writing at the same time lolz