In the first in a new series on RA, Andrew Ryce talks to three major players in the electronic music scene in the United States.

ok?

Isnt this just a typed up version of the RA exchange a while back? Or am I wrong?

I feel very sad after reading this.

The state of those people......

can i just get 1 more "edm" refrence. PLEASE!

+1. What a load of tripe.

if ever there was a reason to live in Europe and not The US, this article is it.

Over grim.

Big respect to Andrew for not lamping each one of them, must have been painful for him.

predictable comments from purist fools who need to wise up the wider world of electronic music and stop living in some elitist bubble.

i say this becuase although i hate skrillex and his music, those "major players" as they are referred to in the article, their actions and decisions trickle down to everyone involved in the scene, so its an important read for anyone involved in electronic music.

Fuck off.. what a load of shit.. soulless dickbags

For Gods sake don't let Terry Farley read this!!! His head will EXPLODE!!

Someone needs to do a comparison of the current 'EDM' scene in the US and the mainstream Disco crossover of the late 70s.

So dance music is breaking through in the US right now because 'real musicians' started making it.

FUCK OFF.

This was depressing. I suppose it was always going to take that direction when 2 of the main 3 people interviewed are senior PR's of the artists' they are talking about (/up) but, even with that in mind, the reference to Skrillex as the new Kurt Cobain made me gip

Pretty painful reading given how important they are for US music, but would it be any better if they interviewed Simon Cowell, Pete Waterman and any other identikit 'music Industry' suits in the UK or Europe?
I hope the US lot are as painfully relatively ill-informed as they appear but maybe that's the wishful thinking of an elitist purist.

Kathryn: "We don't really have a lot of elders in America that people have loved for a long time. [...] Who are the EDM elders? Not necessarily, who are American EDM but important in America, and where do they fall now?"
Did anyone else also not realise that Detroit and New York are in Latvia?

More than anything I feel sorry for the US dance/electronic music fans who have to live under the iron curtain of people like Jimmy Iovine. Because he produced Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers (awesome) that means that's all America gets to listen to forever? "We gave you glorious Russian Space Programme decades ago, so no complaining about having to eat nothing but potatoes". Weak.

Reading between the lines, if people like Bassnectar are selling out, seemingly without the help of these dinosaurs, then it's potentially because kids don't need the radio and the labels to feed them new music, making the dinosaurs obsolete. Fingers crossed.



@neilmurphy "So dance music is breaking through in the US right now because 'real musicians' started making it. FUCK OFF." - classic.

the most prominent factors in the rise and success of this EMD thing seem to be the marketing and 're -branding' of dance music, but its also interesting that they talk about 'songs', this suggests that its actually much more traditional in alot of ways. its actually 'electronic rock music' really, it that it has the strutures of rock, but with the sonic palette of dance music. Also there must be some link between the recession in the states and this sudden explosion. There also seems to have been a total deletion of the last 30 years of modern dance music, which reflects in some ways the age of the kids, but also how kids access culture, and how culture is delivered throught the internet. I cant stand the music, and there are so many things that grate with me about the corporate aspects of this scene, but its happening and its intersesting to understand it, because it can reveal more general trends that are triggered by social technology, economy and changes in culture. its almost got nothing to do with music, and more to do with strucutres of the music business, i noticed the guy mention skrillex is the next kurt cobain, he will proabably turn out to be the next guy that gets packaged, delivered and shafted by the industry, so in that way he definitely will be. Although i dont think thats the meaning he was intending..

no

I used to despise the term EDM but now I kind of get it. The term is trying to suggest that all dance music genres are actually just one big genre. This is of course total bollocks, however when I hear music being marketed as EDM I simply see it as shorthand for 'bad' dance music.

I really want that man who mentioned Daft Punk to listen to Homework. What a bunch of twats... Can someone please tweet this to DJ Sneak he'll have a field day!

I dislike this.

this is exactly how i feel

In his French radio show laurent Garnier talked about this "EDM" thing. He said that in some festivals he played in this summer he was apalled to hear some DJ's playing some mainstream stuff in their sets, namely playing Nicki Minaj. He said that for him "EDM" does not mean "electronic dance music" but "électro de merde", which translates as "shit electronic music", warning listeners against the "ennemy" lurking close by. I totally agree with him, and I totally disagree with the advocates of the mainstream pretending that the "underground" is for an "ellite". This argument has always been used to despise the real artists, those who put their heart into their art. quality music is for curious people. Interestingly in this article they didn't talk about music, just about promotion, big tours and pushing buttons. does anyone of you know a song by Skrillex? Cause I have never heard any on the radio or anywhere. this bubble will blow up and in a year who will remember "Skrillex"? In this article they mix up "Avicci, Srillex, Daft Punk, tiesto and god knows who else of no musical interest " but what do they all have in common musically? This article says way more about the music industry and how it works than about music, otherwise, these 3 people would remember how essential american artists were in the foundation of dance music.
Finally, most of you envy us for living in Europe... Well... Don't, unless by europe you mean Berlin, Amsterdam or London. Quality electronic music is not more mainstream in France than it is there. Here we have to suffer the likes of bob Sinclar, David Guetta, Martin Solveigh and so on.... i'm not sure it's better, all in all.

About dance music being 'gay': "Maybe in America we're all just a bunch of fucking Neanderthal cowboys or something..."

Nice to see some introspection.

+1

For me it helps to view the whole EDM thing as the new rock or heavy metal. That way it has nothing to do with what Resident Advisor is about, I can live with that and they can go on doing their shity music.

The problem is when I want to share my own views and feelings for electronic music to people who are not in to "real" electronic music, they get a completely wrong perception and what I say doesn't come through. I end up being precieved as "one of those guys who likes electronic music, kind of like Avicii and David Guetta", which is hard when I feel such pride for electronic music.

I can relate to that feeling absolutely but there is nothing new here. I've been experiencing that since 1990 or so, first, I was assimilated to drug-addict fools, then in the mid to late 90's I was assimilated those who loved eurodance, while being despised by them (which I won't comlain about LOL) and it goes on now. the two main differences being that with social networking I can feel closer to the artists I like and 2. I decided to make my taste heard by producing my own radio show where i play what I like only and it feels soooooo good to be able to do that as I can be the advocate of artists that I like for the sole reasont aht I like them. I draw my few listeners up to me rather than playing what the mass media expects. Playing and/or producing the music we like and having it heard is the best answer we can bring to these uncultured sharks!

Really depressing.

HAAAA "électro de merde" laurent t'est mon hero

aymericv i was thinking that too, these people are just typical record industry sleazebags talking about their 'trade'. The music is irrelevant to a great extent.

what a load of absolute bollocks

I'm not sure it was meant to be, but this article was profoundly depressing.

Well, everyone is going to hate this article. Rightfully so, because it bastardizes our genre to pop. But, I think it should be noted that we are all members of RA. We don't adhere to the EDM scene. We see our favorite artists perform in warehouses, not stadiums.

Regardless, from an American's perspective, I think those interviewed brought up a great point. Unlike Europe & South America, electronic music did not take hold in mid-to-late 90's. The hip-hop/rap scene was at it's peak, and it overshadowed the meteoric rise of European artists such as the Chemical Brothers, Fat Boy Slim, and Daft Punk. When I was in high school, everyone was talking about underground rappers such as Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common, etc. RJD2, DJ Shadow, Prefuse 73 were the catalyst to my crossover to electronic music in the early 2000's, but I was a rarity. No one in high school was listening to electronic music. My peers thought it was gay. But, in Europe and South America it was accepted .

So, essentially this is America's turn. I'm not a big fan of it, because I am one of those elders that have listened to electronic music for years before it got popular. But, I think overall its for the best for the genre. You're opening eyes to millions of young people to a genre that was once unaccepted. Whether these teens go on to make more shit dubstep or trancestep is to be seen. But, for every 30 people that tries their hand at making EDM, you know there's one kid making deep house, techno, or experimental. You never know when you're going to get another Daft Punk (or Boards of Canada), but now that America is finally turned on to electronic music the chances are much higher.

i'm two questions in and the way these people think makes me want to kill myself

there is no hope, for anything, much less 'edm'

This.

EDM is a distinct genre and, yes, there are some cases (Skrillex, Madeon) when they DO approach the traditional 'song based' structural complexity of, say, prog rock or even some classical music. And, whether you like the overall sound or not, these tracks do indeed make most dance music seem mindlessly repetitive and even primitive.

So the idea "it's all marketing" is fucking nonsense - Skrillex is a guy on a computer recreating the feeling of watching some extreme, noisy hardcore band play, creating something much more dynamic and freewheeling than most programmatical, linear dance music which simply bores the average person to death.

this article is horrible. RA is better than publishing this tripe unless it is solely a massive stealth raspberry in the face of the american populus and music press. Real dance music fans in America must surely cringe when they hear this toss. the concept of "EDM" is their music equivalent of George W Bush... how embarrassing.

What do you think makes EDM artists with mainstream success like Skrillex or Avicii crossover, and more underground artists who have been doing it for years not crossover?


the fact that the majority of people have a shit taste about music, or no taste at all.
or maybe it has more to do with marketing than music.

EDM is not a genre but a marketing concept and Skrillex hasn't invented anything. He was just there at the right place and time to be picked and used byt he music industry as a kind of symbol. I don't necessarily like punk music but shuld I have any choice i'd rather attend a punk cocnert with musicians playing live than a guy typing his music away like a secretary typing a latter at her computer. America isn ot only about EDM and pretending that is being narrow-minded. Actually the music scene is very dynamic there with alot of new artists and labels: Machinedrum, Braille, Distal anc countless others. Let's not even talk about record labels. And what about the revival of what we used to call "booty techno" rebranded as "Jukes & footwork"? it seems though that was is true for jazz artists is also valid for electronic artists: you make music in the States and you earn your money in Europe. Let's hope that this EDM trend will bring more kids to discover what electronic music is really about.

kurt cobain never made music that sounded more geared toward car commercials than an actual fan base that he respected.

this is music for a generation of american kids that texted and played call of duty through 2 wars. there is no edge, no subversive element, nothing that anyone would call remotely responsible or intellectually engaging.

it's the electronic music equivalent of boy bands and limp bizkit in the late 90s. we can all have a good laugh in 10 years.

Wow, at least there is a good comments section; glad to see I'm not the only one who is embarrassed by the "American EDM scene". It sucks living in America and telling people that you like electronic music and they think you're talking about Skrillex. Honestly I hate to say it but I feel like the majority of Americans who like this type of music are just really lazy - they latch on to the first thing they hear and have no desire whatsoever to dig deeper. Omar S said it in the FACT interview - "Underground music is for people that’s not lazy. You’re supposed to be into this type of music and to find out what’s good and what’s sweet as fuck and what’s different." I feel like with this American EDM it's about the image first and then the music. By the way I checked out that Avicii song "levels" to see what the hype is about; it sounds like some really bad trance from 1999.

"it's just that some real producers—musicians—started making this music. Dance music to me was born out of a necessity, and musicians weren't making it."

how out of touch is this idiot?

Kathryn Frazier talks too much...and stupid sh!t.
EDM was tried in the states in the 90'...i remember theprodigy even in nyc papers

what a term...EDM. i'm with mr.garnier on this one

I don't like that the primary school children are already being brainwashed to listen to Skrillex, and what was edit comment about? Saying American dance music has just been edits up to now? What a load of bollocks.

Ok guys all that's happening outside the US is euro trance. There's the US's typical arrogance and homophobia. I live (unfortunately) in the US and I can proudly say that there is small pockets of resistance to this shit; groups of open-minded people who seek out forward thinking music. Shit if I didn't live so near Miami I'd be the fuck out of here

This article is fascinating in the "most gruesome car-crash you´ve ever seen" sense. I´m glad RA did it, though, a great insight into a phenomenon that, whether you like it or not, is extremely important in the current musical climate. As a music fan, I´ve always been interested in knowing how the "enemy" operates.

This is very much a mirror image of what happened with nu-metal in the late 90´s and lots of grunge bands before, and with countless other movements even further back, it´s a classic industry modus-operandi, appropriating emergent styles and packaging them for mainstream acceptance. It´s been done hundreds of times and that´s why to me, the whole EDM scene has as much to do with underground electronic music as any type of pop-music.

Yeah i remember that too.. Like when the prodigy got all stupid and punk or whatever that was supposed to be..
I rerember watching something on TV, can't remember what it was but it was Dave Grohl talking about the prodigy and how it was cool that american kids were getting into it or something. Shut up Dave Grohl.

And i think of frat boys listening to chemical brothers and stuff like that.

You guys do know that AMERICA is a continent that holds several other countries, right?

Title should read:
RA Roundtable: EDM in the USA

There's a lot to pick at here.

I think in the last 30 years of lower-case edm, music has triangulated between loopy, rhythmic, and melodic, with plenty of classics that are honestly pop-like. I don't think you can honestly say that today's EDM scene music is 100% musically different than historical underground dance sounds. Heck, in the past 5 years I've enjoyed pop radio music again because the production has been infused with these underground studio sounds and techniques.

So what's really different about the EDM scene? I don't know. Granted I've never exposed myself to what's going on. Since I started going out in '90 and stopped going on in the mid '00s, there have always been people who are in it for the party, and it would be a farce to say that those people would not go out today because of the state of the music.

Maybe the difference is that earlier there was an underground aspect of the scene and today it feels like the youth culture that is attractive because it excludes the "adults", although all kids and young adults always like to think they're doing something special.

The American music industry: Screwing dance music since '77.

Dave Rene: "I mean, to me, I always try and look at things from a purely musical perspective, and it's just that some real producers—musicians—started making this music. Dance music to me was born out of a necessity, and musicians weren't making it. They were making re-edits to do something to make the floor move a little bit, and a lot of those guys were king alienators that were better at re-editing than you are."

Dave Rene: "Yeah, I'm one of those. You wouldn't catch me listening to dance music in my car in high school."

Enough said!

Nailed it.

Electronic music thats been over produced and mass marketed and run through countless board meetings.

I dont really have anything against the dudes making it. Skrillex and Deadmau5 probably just wanted to make some tunes and cant believe the luck they've had. But it becomes a problem when popularity starts getting mistaken for talent - or credibility.

These guys are the current pop stars of electronic music. As long as people recognise them as such Im cool with it.

Start telling me they're the biggest because they're the best and we'll have problems. I take real offence to the suggestion that this music has become big because Skrillex is a proper musician and everyone before him wasnt.

It has become big in the US because the timing was right for it to crossover. Fuck knows why but it seems to be how music works. Various other people will have tried and failed to break electronic music over there but these guys lucked out and were there making their tunes at the right time.

Think there's an element of Deadmau5 and Skrillex being reasonably good businessmen themselves as well. The stupid mouse-head makes Deadmau5 recognisable and more importantly, marketable. It's a gimmick. Skrillex as well looks the part - he's not some middle-aged english bloke making techno in a basement he's an emo-twat and his look will be familiar to the crowds that he's being marketed to. They're both very easy to market to a US mainstream audience.

Its actually no different than any other musical breakthrough. People make some music, play some gigs, get some crowds, play some more gigs, crowds get bigger, press start sniffing around and then the big money men come along and spend millions on marketing these people, packaging them and selling them to the X-Factor generation.

This EDM thing in the US has happened almost entirely independently of the scene we discuss here. Obviously its roots are in the clubbing / raving scene and they've all clearly borrowed from the work of others but what they're doing is, in my opionion, an entirely seperate entity to what the people on this forum do for fun each weekend.

Skrillex will continue to sell out concerts and festivals until the world gets bored and moves on. In the meantime the club scene as we know it will continue along its own path, completely unhindered and unaffected by what's happening in the world of 'EDM'.

On the one hand I am happy to read the reactions here, cos they show that people see a big difference between the world of clubs, djs, tracks and festivals, songs and superstar-performers. On the other hand I really wonder why RA actually even interviews those people - they clearly have very few to do with the music community around RA? Or am I wrong? Tell meeeeeee

Skrillex will continue to sell out concerts and festivals until the world gets bored and moves on. In the meantime the club scene as we know it will continue along its own path, completely unhindered and unaffected by what's happening in the world of 'EDM'.

This.

.....