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| The Feed Philip Sherburne looks into "the vicious circle that forces producers to DJ (and DJs to produce)" over at Spin.
The Feed permalink - #55328 |
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| #1 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 05:38 Why not tag team it. Call your best friend or family member or whatever and split the work. If i start producing music under the name DJ Real, and i hate performing, but i have a good buddy who loves to perform, he could call himself DJ Real. No one needs to know he doesnt produce the music, and we can split the profits. I spend full time producing, he spends full time DJing. And I am quite certain if your a successful DJ that produces and performs lives, you can make enough money for 2 people to live extremely well.
brilliant! i'd better post an ad up on craiglist! idiot.
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| #2 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 05:38 it's a terrible attitude to have.
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| #3 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 07:37 Interesting, well written article.
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| #4 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 08:43 There is always something interesting being released. Sure some of it is unrefined and haymaker swings at creativity but there is a lot of creativity out there or at least attempts at it. I mean the creativity is there to a point that things that might not work well on a dancefloor are being released these days. So is there really a creativity crisis? The creative stuff is blurred amongst a ton of weak stuff that is facepalm worthy that makes its way through a lack of filters and cronyist media promotion, but dance music as a creative outlet has remained as strong as its ever been, especially in the past year or two.
The article seems incomplete...sort of a vent and missing substance...might be the format.
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| #5 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 08:57 Posted by kitriitWhy not tag team it. Call your best friend or family member or whatever and split the work. If i start producing music under the name DJ Real, and i hate performing, but i have a good buddy who loves to perform, he could call himself DJ Real. No one needs to know he doesnt produce the music, and we can split the profits. I spend full time producing, he spends full time DJing. And I am quite certain if your a successful DJ that produces and performs lives, you can make enough money for 2 people to live extremely well.
brilliant! i'd better post an ad up on craiglist! idiot. Isn't this what Ame do? Kristian does most of the DJ bookings
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| #6 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 09:06 Shed, Scuba and Dettman do both to a high standard, to name but three.
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| #7 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 10:06 Posted by dazedeten There is always something interesting being released. Sure some of it is unrefined and haymaker swings at creativity but there is a lot of creativity out there or at least attempts at it. I mean the creativity is there to a point that things that might not work well on a dancefloor are being released these days. So is there really a creativity crisis? The creative stuff is blurred amongst a ton of weak stuff that is facepalm worthy that makes its way through a lack of filters and cronyist media promotion, but dance music as a creative outlet has remained as strong as its ever been, especially in the past year or two.
The article seems incomplete...sort of a vent and missing substance...might be the format.
Word up. It's the filter mechanisms, or lack thereof. Too many bad/amateur DJs, with bad/immature taste, that go to digital retailer Wal-Marts like Beatport...which these days just caters to the lowest common denominator, with their ass-licking "features" which basically make or break the digital releases. Then there's the lapdog press, and just like the DJ world, plenty of ladder-climbing, gold digging "journos" that can't really write well, and regurgitate what their homeboy (or the label) told 'em. It's a sad state of affairs in that regard...but honestly, fuck it, it's not my problem. I can't keep up with all the goodies...every time I get a little comfortable, some new shit slaps me in the face with a trout.
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| #8 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 11:57 Posted by dazedeten There is always something interesting being released. Sure some of it is unrefined and haymaker swings at creativity but there is a lot of creativity out there or at least attempts at it. I mean the creativity is there to a point that things that might not work well on a dancefloor are being released these days. So is there really a creativity crisis? The creative stuff is blurred amongst a ton of weak stuff that is facepalm worthy that makes its way through a lack of filters and cronyist media promotion, but dance music as a creative outlet has remained as strong as its ever been, especially in the past year or two.
The article seems incomplete...sort of a vent and missing substance...might be the format.
He doesn't say there isn't any interesting music being released - he says that the situation makes it harder to find among the proliferation of mediocre stuff being churned out. Which is essentially the exact same thing you're saying.
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| #9 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 12:30 imo a very onesided view on an incredibly complex matter. if you bring up the scarcity of time you also gotta consider those underground peeps back in the day, working 9to5 and still working on and releasing music.. they managed their lives, too. that article brings absolutely nothing new to the table and i wonder why people gotta write a fuckin essay about it.
its always been a struggle. but the conscious decision to actually make a living off of music, be it djing or producing, has always been the same, and so are the compromises that come with it.
peace
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| #10 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 12:49 I just don't know how we got to the position where you have to make records to be recongised as a DJ, get booking etc (with notable exceptions of course). I was just reading the Anthony Naples interview (which is excellent by the way) and he says he's having to learn his skills as a DJ fast to cope with a demand for bookings.. isn't that a bit ridiculous? Why we can't see them as two completely separate things is a mystery to me.
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| #11 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 13:34 everything is ridiculous to a certain extent, just ask carl sagan. i really dont see the problem here. if you want to remain economically independent and still solely release music and not perform live/as a dj - get a job like everybody else. thats how the world works. i mean when has this been any different?
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| #12 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 14:53 Posted by honig1000 imo a very onesided view on an incredibly complex matter. if you bring up the scarcity of time you also gotta consider those underground peeps back in the day, working 9to5 and still working on and releasing music.. they managed their lives, too. that article brings absolutely nothing new to the table and i wonder why people gotta write a fuckin essay about it.
its always been a struggle. but the conscious decision to actually make a living off of music, be it djing or producing, has always been the same, and so are the compromises that come with it.
peace
probably because all these "music journalists" are no better than the majority of "artitsts". they don't even really address the music anymore. it's more like a press release with their opinion.
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| #13 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 17:25 What's unfortunate is that in my home town, the way it is right now, especially how promoters are, is: shit producer > great DJ, which I think is really a big problem for us.
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| #14 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 17:35 (Edited: 19 Nov 12 06:14) Posted by DriscollobosPosted by dazedeten There is always something interesting being released. Sure some of it is unrefined and haymaker swings at creativity but there is a lot of creativity out there or at least attempts at it. I mean the creativity is there to a point that things that might not work well on a dancefloor are being released these days. So is there really a creativity crisis? The creative stuff is blurred amongst a ton of weak stuff that is facepalm worthy that makes its way through a lack of filters and cronyist media promotion, but dance music as a creative outlet has remained as strong as its ever been, especially in the past year or two.
The article seems incomplete...sort of a vent and missing substance...might be the format.
He doesn't say there isn't any interesting music being released - he says that the situation makes it harder to find among the proliferation of mediocre stuff being churned out. Which is essentially the exact same thing you're saying. Maybe a different title would have worked better for the contents of the article. I don't entirely disagree with some of the views in the article, but when you say "dance music is in creative crisis", its a broad brush and a fallacy, when there is many examples of the opposite (that the author seems to be discovering himself)...just look at the amount of music with the experimental tag being reviewed here on RA this year. With that said, he makes a few good observations that I think many including artists and DJs themselves have been making about the dance music echosystem. I think the article title might have been better titled as "Its hard to be a jack of two time consuming trades" or something along those lines. Though as someone has pointed out, some* DJ/Producers are pulling it off...
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| #15 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 19:49 The computer: best/worst thing that ever happened to music.
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| #16 / Fri, 16 Nov 12 20:03 Posted by honig1000 imo a very onesided view on an incredibly complex matter. if you bring up the scarcity of time you also gotta consider those underground peeps back in the day, working 9to5 and still working on and releasing music.. they managed their lives, too. that article brings absolutely nothing new to the table and i wonder why people gotta write a fuckin essay about it.
its always been a struggle. but the conscious decision to actually make a living off of music, be it djing or producing, has always been the same, and so are the compromises that come with it.
peace
This. There are still people now who busy their asses with a full time job, and produce, run labels, and tear it up in the club. Work ethic and talent will always win out in the long run. Just look at peeps like jus-ed, Fred P, the deconstruct crew... All real people with real lives who do it all because they are driven to.
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| #17 / Sat, 17 Nov 12 00:32 Haven't live bands been doing the same thing since forever? Write songs, get in the studio and record, play live. Repeat.
I guess the argument would be that these guys aren't making a ton of money off of their recordings, but that's why they call it underground music. To make a killing off your recordings, then make the next "Call On Me" or "Levels" (easier said than done). If the music you release is esoteric RA-only approved bleeps, bloops and reverb then you're shit out of luck on the money front.
And the idea that a DJ/Producer has to constantly release material is not true. If you release quality material, people will take notice, even if it's once every 2 years. If every time you step in the DJ booth you crush it then they'll keep coming back.
Aside from piracy, which is a serious issue, a lot of these artists complaining are either not good enough at their craft yet or are failing to understand what their audiences want to hear in a live setting.
The real question is if these DJs/Producers are being compensated accordingly to their fan followings and talent level. Personally, I have no idea how much these guys are making per year. Maybe someone can shed some light on the subject.
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| #18 / Sun, 18 Nov 12 02:09 Posted by honig1000 imo a very onesided view on an incredibly complex matter. if you bring up the scarcity of time you also gotta consider those underground peeps back in the day, working 9to5 and still working on and releasing music.. they managed their lives, too. that article brings absolutely nothing new to the table and i wonder why people gotta write a fuckin essay about it.
its always been a struggle. but the conscious decision to actually make a living off of music, be it djing or producing, has always been the same, and so are the compromises that come with it.
peace
I hope the irony of dismissing a considered argument as one-sided in a brief and even more blinkered comment on a message board is not lost on you. You are right that this is a hugely complex issue, but you're missing the wider point being made here. Nobody's saying that any producer has a divine right to earn a living from selling music. The point being made is that the increasingly widespread notion that recorded music should be free to the consumer feeds and accelerates a spiral of decreasing quality of the overall level of quality of electronic music. Illegal downloads, free streaming services, artists self-releasing music for free, DJ/press promo culture, websites/blogs streaming music/offering a relentless supply of free downloads rather than writing about it, distributors pressurising artists & labels to contribute to the 'new music' machine, DJs/producers churning out tracks to get gigs rather than out of a burning need for creative release - all of these factors serve to diminish recorded music to the level of 'promotional tool' rather than 'valuable work of artistic endeavour'. Of course creativity will never be eradicated, it is possible to be creative in constrained conditions BUT the likelihood of making truly great music is proportional to the time an artist has to master their craft - time that getting paid fairly for their productions/recordings can afford. It's disingenuous to pick out a handful of (moderately, in the grand scheme of things) successful artists who can juggle recording and performing commitments to an equally high level and say "if it can work for them, any other artist should be able to do it by following the same formula - or suck it up." By doing so you are limiting the opportunity for people who may not be great performers of becoming great recording artists. How can you fail to see that this, in turn, deprives the scene overall of a potential resource of great recorded music? Equally, it's inaccurate to compare to the artists "back in the day" as they were able to profit from their recordings in a way that is more difficult today (due to the above factors, amongst others) - which could help them break away from the 9-5 and in turn become better artists.
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| #19 / Sun, 18 Nov 12 11:12 Posted by marzie Shed, Scuba and Dettman do both to a high standard, to name but three.
Shed yes, Scuba and Dettmann are average. I mean seriously. Clearly Shed is head and shoulders above the other two. This article is spot on.
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