It's also in that email black and white that there was something fishy going about what they were telling him to say at customs. it's quite blatant. They should have clicked to it when he asks him not to say he is getting paid for gigs. Jeez, whats so difficult to understand here?

also, lol about lying on the visa, if it's true.

Is anyone really that surprised that the promoters didn't reveal the whole truth? c'mon now people...

If ABrandCalledU's post is legit, that would make sense about them wanting to skimp...a short-stay business visa is $20, versus at least $315 for an entertainment visa.

Given how much Louis likes that 12K he kept, I'm sure he was ecstatic that he didn't have to pay taxes on that income. So despite the claims by the publicist that Louis would never lie, I find it hard to believe he would not.

Like the other guy said, let's see the response e-mail. That will let us know.

I also wonder if the promoter was trying to cover the fact that Louis had already been paid, in the US, for work that he would be doing in Australia? Would he have had a tax liability for income earned on artistic endeavours conducted in this country? Perhaps if some of the fee had been payable after he had entered the country, and/or completed the contract, the visa they applied for may have been different? I don't know the answer to that- just wondering?

what a palaver

Madonna was a game-changer, yo, get with the times, Marshall!

you are a real idiot

well well well . i knew from the off that some of the truth was withheld to suit karim and his little gang . i would honestly advise any artist or dj to stay away from karim .
and also it turns out that you are not as innocent as you would lead people to think on here . it seems that you are famous karim but for all the wrong reasons beyond this incident with LL . you have truly scandalous everything that electronic music should stand for . it seems that there is more and more grubby egomaniacs like you that are in it for the fame and stupidity .

And you are a wordsmith.

such a tease. elaborate!

to be fair LL will need to associate himself with better bookers & advisers .
anyone with knowledge of how things work would have said to the promoters from the start . no entertainment visa , no tour . they do not mess around over there when it comes to this stuff .

maybe Louis should try and hire a better PR person

This gets better and better.

as they say 'don't wash dirty laundry in public'

Lil Louis is a music producer and a best DJ in Chicago.

Could not help replying to this.
There is no "we" or "publicist" or "three agents". Lets cut the crap.
If the visa issue was such an issue for "the talent", then very simple, you dispute it right away.
Why go to the airport in the first place and now bring up a visa issue after you missed the connecting flight and kept the cash? Bit stupid right?
This is really digging now and looking for any excuse.
Also, all these new posters all have similar styles to the ones that are "not LL".
From an educated guess, I'd imagine "the talent" did not realize bags went from one flight to the next, went to collect, couldnt find, figured they were missing and missed the connection.

Ohhh shit! Here comes another 14 pages.

Is sixshootindaddy a basketball reference?

Here is your answer.
Tax paid to an artist overseas by bank transfer to their country is "the talents" issue as they are resident in said country.
Tax paid in Australia is based on earnings from a show, i.e the tickets sold, and not what has been paid to "the talent".
You dont pay tax on money you earned, paid tax on already and are now sending to another country, you pay bank charges.
Simple as that really.

No need to LOL, "the talent" had no issue with going to the airport with the visa he had. I repeat, no issue.
The mess up happened with the disappearing bag and connection flight.

Karim pays fee's, books hotels, promotes shows, has a flow of shows already, books flights.

"the talent" takes money, takes days to reply emails, has 3 agents but did not use one, messed up at the airport, puts his music under the plane with no back-up, didnt take a later possible flight to make the gigs.

^ x2

you can't clutch at straws when its clear if louis had an issue with this, he should have said so in the start.

He complained about wanting all the cash up front (which is just plain silly), yet didnt complain about a couple of hundred extra for the right visa?

It's obvious it didn't bother him.

if there were contracts exchanged they would come with stipulations as to what happens with the fee in case of such and such an event . lets not try to dupe the public here . i can understand that the contract for legal reasons may not be publicized but this is the piece of document that holds the key to this sorry saga . for example most agents would have a clause as well on their contracts about gig cancellations . just using this as an example . such as - should the promoter cancel the booking less than 8 weeks before the gig that they would be responsible for the whole fee still .

i think this visa scenario is a non issue to be honest . LL agreed to this and got on that plane fully aware that he did not have proper work papers . though i guess if karim had the nerve to publish someone's passport scan without their permission ( something which is legally questionable ) it is fair game at this point that LL will also air Karim's dirty laundry .
i repeat !! this whole saga is really sad and an indication that we really should all take stock about where we are going with things .
this is worse than how the majors would even conduct themselves to be honest . shameful !!!

Your point is valid, however with regards the contract, if "the talent" is 38 years in the business, he should be well aware of the in's/out's of paying a gig fee back if you don't arrive. No one can be this stupid.
Dj contracts are not that complex and after 38 years you have surely seen a fair share.
If he just started last week in the business, I would understand this. but 38 years, you would learn wrong from right and its a question of morals/character after that. Both which appear to be very questionable.

this is a legal and business dispute so i fail to see why someone's age is relevant to be honest . if both parties were responsible people then none of this would have happened . and now i guess it is up to the courts to decide who is right and who is wrong . either way a lot of damage has been done to the scene and both parties are responsible for this sorry state of affairs .

this is a legal and business dispute so i fail to see why someone's age is relevant to be honest . if both parties were responsible people then none of this would have happened . and now i guess it is up to the courts to decide who is right and who is wrong . either way a lot of damage has been done to the scene and both parties are responsible for this sorry state of affairs .

I don't think there was a contract.

Things were happening so fast, and Karim was so intent on having LL in Australia that he did a whole bunch of things a promoter wouldn't do. I think the closest thing to a "contract" that we're gonna see are the emails being passed back and forth on his site and in this thread.

A contract would be far less sensitive than, say, a redacted picture of someone's passport posted without said passport owner's permission.

damn ! how do you give a stranger 12k without a contract ?. karim if you are a player as you claim to be by saying that you have the power to make sure that MJ does not come into australia ..... all i can say ..... is ..... you could not even organize a 1 yr old babies birthday at this point .

Not a question of age but a question of experience. 38 years is more than enough experience to know how the game works.

You are mis-quoting on the MJ part. Read back at Karims answers.

12k to a stranger? A public figure with 38 years industry experience and well known in the game is not a stranger. Karim has done a lot of events and 2 more this month without issue.

as i said LL also fucked up . though i see huge mistakes from both sides . one of them being that this saga should not have been made public in such a way as both LL and karim will both lose from this . though on the bigger picture - our scene will be negatively affected in general by this .

Karim wont lose at all, he is a buyer. Its not like agents or artists will be saying no to money, that I can assure you of. He will be more cautious in the future I'd imagine, what with guys like LL lurking around.
The scene will not be damaged at all. People wont give a shit. The main damage will be to LL as this has went global and I'm sure promoters will think twice about booking him at all. Its not good for him but he did get well warned in advance of what would happen if he tried to keep the money. He kept the money and here we are today on this forum.

I think it's time to settle the score in an indoor basketball court game.

GAME
...
..
.
BLOUSERS

if i were an agent in this present time i would not work with karim . i spoke with a couple of artists yesterday who were also in dismay about this whole saga and they would definitely not work with him . some greedy agents yes would work with him and these type of agents are what is exactly wrong with the scene right now . my point precisely that if people share your view that this will not damage our scene then the music is sadly in the wrong hands pure and simple !!! it is afterall about the music incase people have forgotten .

as karim and clarisse have been negotiating this on behalf of other promoters . after this saga surely they would realize that they are both not fit for purpose .

The artists are full of shit. The minute their agent calls them us with X amount of cash for a gig, they say yes and let the agent handle the shit that goes with it.
Karim and Clarisse already do a lot of events, this LL issue will not cause them even a remote bit of trouble.
It is about the music for some people, for others like LL, its about the money as he managed to keep that safe no problem! but put his music under the plane without a backup.

your last post does not make you come off well . as it is extremely arrogant that karim and co and you by the sound of things do not seem bothered at all that this whole thing is a pure shambles . it does not bode well for the scene in australia if you guys are in charge of booking acts for the country . it is a shame that there are a lot of people in australia that have worked hard and do a great job and that they may also be lumped with the likes of you guys .

Promoters have an important role, artists have an important role. Many times I've brought girlfriends with me to gigs and they've seen a line around the block at $100 a head and they say "You should ask for more money". But that wasn't the deal. I explain to them that if the club was empty, the promoter loses money. Then what?

I got paid before i got on the plane, and my stress is over for the rest of the trip. The promoter had to well..........promote. He's got all kinds of stress the day of the gig. And more power to him if he makes 50 times more money than me on the night. But if nobody shows up, and he has to pay the club for rental, and those mean ass bouncers, I'm back at the hotel in bed, already paid, completely unaware.

And that's the tradeoff. Artist has less stress and no potential for extra money, promoter has loads of potential for extra money but he also takes the risk upon himself.

I've always respected the promoters role in the scene, but some of my fellow artists don't. They never see the risk involved, and never appreciate the fact that we're sheltered from it.

Promoters accept this risk; if you aren't prepared for it you have no business being a promoter. I'm not saying expect it, I'm saying be prepared for it, which is another frame of mind entirely.

Artists miss gigs all the time. DJ's miss gigs all the time. That's a fact. Things happen. In fact, I'll bet most here have been to at least one gig where the DJ failed to show up. That's another part of the risk promoters take upon themselves.

Karim and Clarisse paid Lil Louis up front. That was the risk they chose to take. If
they didn't, I guarandamntee Lil Louis wouldn't have even accepted the gig. They advertised, they got the venues, did the promotion.........and didn't have the DJ. The absolute gall they have complaining about Louis demands, his rider, and everything going down at the last minute is beyond belief. THEY BOOKED THE GIG WITHOUT A DAMNED SIGNED CONTRACT.

Lil Louis missed the connection. Happens all the time. 2 lessons learned: A: never connect an American through Canada and B: Always have minimum 4 hour connections if you HAVE to have one.

Now comes the tricky part: they ask for the fee back. It is extremely rare to even ask for an artist to return a fee. Not saying it's never happened, I'm saying it's rare.
Usually the artist reschedules. Because you never know what an artist has done with his advance. Maybe he bought a car. Or a new camera. Or drugs. Or hell, maybe he just paid his bills. People look at Louis $12000 and say "wow! that's a lot of money!" But if that's spread over 4 months, and the finance company has been telling him they'll repossess his car tomorrow, there's a good chance he ain't gonna have the money if somebody asks for it back.

And that's part of the risk Karim and Clarisse SHOULD have accepted when they went forward with the payments.

What a lot of people don't understand about the music business and DJ's is that except for the absolute top tier of millionaire artists, you're either rich or you're broke. You can have 100,000 one month and nothing the next. People assume we're all rich. I'm certainly not. And maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm damn sure Louis isn't rich either.

Now. For these people to come here and post Louis passport? to go after him and try to destroy him after missing a flight...............is just about the most disgusting thing I've ever heard of. IF Louis just sat home and didn't take ANY flights, then sent them and email saying "fuck you! hahahaha" I could understand it.

But after bailing them out booking him without a fucking contract and putting him at risk of being banned from Australia for LIFE, no way!.

On top of that, accusing him of being a lair about his flights and his baggage, then THREATENING him, it's just beyond belief.

And there you have it. Karim won't be hurt by this at all, because of a simple dynamic: what agent is going to turn down money? If he gets Frankie Knuckles next week, all is forgiven with the other promoters. Louis on the other hand is screwed.

- promotor should have worked with a proper agent and not with an artist directly, especially when communication should have raised some red flags to begin with.
If it's such a load of trouble, it's probably going to KEEP being trouble. In which case: bail out.

- artist should reimburse promotor (maybe not completely, but at least partially, because after all: he did not perform). Taking 12000 dollars is simply theft, any way you cut it.

- Lil Louis has made superb music that stands the test of time, a shame that this kind of things taint that image. But - and I know I'll get flamed for this - when you book US artists, there's always some degree of tantrums involved it seems. Diva behavior, money money money money... makes me stay away from booking them.

if promoters take the risk with louis now, their clubs will be rammed after this imo.

So, what you're saying is after all this, posting his passport and personal info for everyone to see, the biased commentary on top of that, the attempted destruction of Louis' career, he should reimburse them? Then What?

After reading all of this, I kind of want to hear him play.

With professionalism like this, no wonder you're 12k down.

Between posts like this; the tackiness of that tumblr; the selectivity of documents (passports and bank accounts but still no contract); etc., it seems to me that this is the dodgy character in the story, not the veteran DJ. But then again, it's way easier to side with the squeaky-clean Australia...

All anybody has really heard is K's side (which we now see is heavily biassed). This is a guy who accused LL of tax evasion, but sent LL an email detailing how to avoid taxes by lying to immigration! A guy who threatens Marshall Jefferson, who has been totally polite. A guy who accuses LL of regularly ripping off promoters, but offers no proof. And people are ready to lynch without even hearing the other half. (And, honestly, I hope LL remains relatively grownup and doesn't play the internet game beyond that Facebook post.)

Somebody so intent on character assassination seems to have a lot of character flaws himself...

It wouldn't stop me going to see him.

you tal the biggest load of crap . have you booked all US artists that you know that they are all divas ? you idiot !!

You make several valid points in this post (as you have throughout the rest of this thread), but I do take issue with this:

" But after bailing them out booking him without a fucking contract and putting him at risk of being banned from Australia for LIFE, no way!"

Are you trying to legitimately argue that Louis is entitled to the $12,000 as he did them a favor by booking dates with no contract? Really? It seems like the only person who this would serve favorably is Louis himself. Once that money is in his hands, situations like this become far stickier without a legally binding, signed paperwork - as witnessed in this debacle.

For someone who has nearly four decades of experience in the music business and has experience with booking agents, we are to believe that this one time he did it on his own and as a favor because these seemed like some credible people? Now, I'm not one to judge Louis' character as I do not know the man, but that claim to me seems patently naive. Furthermore, wouldn't a person who has years of international travel experience be versed in the simple nuances of travel? Wouldn't he think to carry his most vital possessions on his person?

People continue to argue that Air Canada was not his preferred airline, but this detail holds absolutely no water whatsoever as he accepted the terms. This negotiation is a two way street, both parties had an opportunity to bail. This also applies to the Visa situation. Louis obviously had the opportunity to question the legality and future ramifications this might have on himself but seemingly went with it anyways. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding the missed flight, Louis had an opportunity to travel to Australia by alternate means to still make his shows and voluntarily declined.

For one who makes such strong claims about perfect attendance to just give up that easily? I don't know.

This all being said, the promoters on the Australia end should learn many serious lessons from this situation. Posting the scanned passport and redacted bank information did absolutely nothing to help your cause and in fact could likely have consequences. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I hope it turns out that there is some legitimate explanation for why Louis did not end up in Australia and felt entitled to take the money, and I will happily eat my words if and when that does happen. I would hate to see someone's career take a hit over a misunderstanding or a vindictive campaign due to butthurt.

Fixed.

@pedern You've offered no valid points anywhere and all you've done is insulted people. Grow up.