No. There was a contract signed, Karim just hasn't posted it, for whatever reason.

By "bailing out" I'm talking about Karim getting the venues and promotion going before even speaking to Louis. If Louis said no and didn't sign a contract, the shitstorm would have been on Karim, because then he would've had to explain to the clubs why he didn't deliver the artist. Karim also tried to get Louis to fly to Australian-the toughest immigration of any country in the world.........without a proper work permit. He would've been banned for life. But he didn't care about what happened to Louis, did he? Wasn't his problem. If Louis gets banned from Australia for life, he just books another act and goes about his business. It wasn't his risk.

And if Louis got banned from Australia for life, I guarantee he wouldn't have taken it public and slagged off Karim.

I get your point but I still don't see how this entitles him to keep the money unless the promoters legally breached the contract by failing to provide proper documentation, which I guess as this continues to unfold isn't altogether unlikely.

Marshall what don´t you get. He refused to give the money back and ceased all correspondance. That is why the blog went up. Clearly he was not giving the money back. If he is so concerned about his public image then he probably shouldn´t f&ck people over.

You can try all you like and put up distractions about what happened but the proof is in the pudding. He still got that 12k for payment of shows he didn´t perform at, which is theft.

Posted by idontthinkso
On behalf of house music, Louis give that money back! Promoters, make this situation turn around!
youtu.be/tlKX-m17C7U

From what I understand, most performer contracts have a cancellation clause that entitles the performer to keep the fee if their appearance is cancelled by an Act of God. A lawyerly acquaintance who I gave the short version to thinks that if a contract exists with such a clause, LL could claim that weather - an Act of God- prevented him from clearing his missing baggage, immigration, etc. And the $12k could be considered a "deposit". And given his offer of rescheduling to rectify, he seems to think that LL would be seen pretty favorably in court, not that this would make it to court, which would end up being way more expensive than $12k. He does a lot of contract work but stressed that he knows nothing about entertainment contracts.

He also thinks that the website created is probably libelous, but given the international nature of the whole thing, is probably not worth the expense of suing over. But he would get cease and desists moving if it were his client. Although, the longer the site is left up, the more damages LL could possibly win, as he could claim more instances of lost revenue from the defamation.

And what happens after Louis gives the money back?

I have to admit I did that too.

I really think you would have a hard time selling "Act of God" in court considering he had means to make the shows and voluntarily declined it.

You're totally right though, the fact that this is international makes it so prohibitively expensive that any sort of litigation would be a nightmare. Possibly this factored in to the decision to just keep the money? I would be remiss to neglect the possibility.

In America, the land of the lawsuit, Louis could claim lost income for years to come from the smear campaign. It wasn't the posting the emails-it was the commentary. He could claim millions in damages. That would make it worth an attorney's time to get money on the back end.

Australia is another story though. In America you can sue for anything, but Australia, dunno.

I think bottom line- and the purpose of the Tumblr- was for Karim to put it out there that Louis had PURPOSEFULLY missed the flight- thereby invalidating any force majure claims by Louis.

Karim seems to think that by putting a biased point of view into the public eye, that makes it true.

He has purposefully put a spin on things to make it seem a certain way. If there is a contract, he needs people to believe that Louis did not honour it.

I hope that no-one ever works with douchelords like Karim again. And his girlfriend Clarisse is no better.

thank you for this gem

Clarisse and Karim have 2 events this month, nobody is going to turn down work with them because no one turns down money.

'pre-Madonna' has probably just become my favourite phrase of 2012

I want to see the pic

715th!

You are right Marshall, no-one turns down money. It would be a crying shame if Karim Mattha (who is currently galavanting around Europe eating at Heston Blumenthal's restaurants) managed to escape blame. I really dislike young gen-Y upstarts like these people who have no respect for anyone.

I think a few people would turn done Karim Mattha and Clarisse Monahan if they were really moralistic like me but then I don't have mouths to feed and I have a steady income, so I can afford to choose morals over money!

That's why I keep asking what happens if Louis gives back the money? They go about their merry way unscathed, but Louis' career takes a hit well into the foreseeable future. But of course nobody cares about that. They just care about their money. They didn't care about Louis entering the country without a work permit and they won't care about screwing 38 years of hard work. This was an evil, malicious thing they've done, and they don't even see it. They probably think posting someone's passport and personal info online with biased commentary is no big deal.

I agree we need Columbo to sort this shit out.

The bigger problem that this conflagration exposes is the game itself. People like Karim, despite the fact that they are promoters by trade, only want to 'promote' acts who pretty much sell themselves.

There's no doubt that LL has lots of history in the music, he's banged out a ton of clubs and he'd be a great draw for any location. But I know MANY DJs - several of whom have posted in this very thread - who are just as good. But for lazy people like Karim, who only focus on the names (look at his FB page if there's any question) they won't ever get a chance. They certainly won't get twelve thousand dollars sent to their brother's bank account on little more than an email. (To those who say there's a contract, I again say, show it; we've seen all this other nonsense, that should be the easiest thing to do...unless it cast you in a bad light.)

The system needs to change.

Firstly, promoters need to not only be willing to accept the risk, they also need to accept the job of promoting itself. All Karim has is money (in fact, I will bet you that's the only reason why we're seeing this.) He doesn't have any promoting talent, he doesn't have any negotiation skills, and he certainly doesn't have any fuckin' common sense. That needs to end. The difference between a good DJ and a great DJ is hard work and someone who's willing to take the time to show you to the world. That's the promoter's job. If we even remotely care about this underground scene, we all need to start focusing our efforts in that direction.

Secondly, listeners need to get it out of their heads that a name is the only reason to go out to a club. Just because you don't see a LL or a MJ (sorry bruh, had to include you ) or a Ron Trent on the bill shouldn't mean you stay home. That goes doubly for you if you sit up here and whine about how 'music is everything'. GET UP AND GO OUT TO THE CLUB and hear some damn music.

Lastly but not leastly, DJs need to get it the fuck out of their heads that this is about you. It's not. At the end of the day, you're a dude playing yours and somebody else's music matched together. Without those other cats out there making heat for you to drop, unless you're a bad ass producer, you don't have a lot to work with. Tone down the diva behavior and recognize that you are, in essence, an entertainer. I'm NOT saying don't get paid - especially if this is what you do for a living. What I am saying is - think about the passion that got you into this, rather than just the dollar bills on the other side. Because there are people out there who will do it just as well as you, for much less than you charge, so if you're gonna be expensive, you better god damn be special.

There's my nickel. This debacle has the potential to be a learning experience for everyone...but only if people choose to listen.

Can't believe only one person called out "the promoters" for posting on here under false pretenses at the beginning of the thread (ironically in the midst of trying to call out LL supporters).

"thebitchisback": an alias choice that—like Karim's attack on Marshall, his scandalous email encouraging breaking laws, and the selectively edited tumblr that started all this—shows what level of professionalism we should expect from these promoters who have somehow been assumed to be the more honest party.

alteredmoods nailed it.

I wish someone would set up a Tumblr about Karim Mattha and Clarisse Monahan too.

I think the promoters deserve everything they get as they should of just booked someone else,when it got suspicious,but that said the money should be returned it is not lil louis's it is the promoters,furthermore any lawyer worth their salt will tear the promoters apart for their amateurish actions,from the booking process to this whole tumblr thing,not professional on either part

To be fair, "the talent" claimed to have 3 agents, didn't pass over one of them to the promoters and then took days to reply emails. So the whole visa thing doesn't hold any water at all. He could have disputed this.

Screwing the 38 years of hard work? well to be fair he got well warned what would happen if he didn't pass the money back. He instead decided to keep it and cut contact.....dodgy!

"The talent" will not be able to sue for this, as in a normal circumstance he could claim lost earnings and defamation of character, but in the case of lost earnings, he would need to surrender a yearly tax audit. His average yearly earning power would be taken from this and forecasted with extra put on top for damages.
However, and its a big however, "the talent" puts his payments in his brothers account.

He should have paid back minus his expenses and re-booked the shows. More time would have meant more shows so he could have even gained.

I love all the new accounts that signed in here claiming not to be "the talent" but all writing pretty much the same things.

Bottom line is he agreed to travel, messed up, took the money and tired to disappear.

And say what in it Louis?..ermm...I mean Mellyrel. They tried to book a diva dj who went along with all, messed up at the airport and tried to keep the cash? They then warned him what would happen, he thought he was bigger than the internet and here we are today? Yeah, sounds great.

This makes me wanna start a band...

"Who is Louis" is a great name as well

It holds water because they tried to get him into the country illegally because they didn't give a damn about him. That's what I'm saying. I'm not talking about legally, I'm talking about character.



If you warned me you would rape my sister if I didn't pay you, does that make ok just because you *warned* me?



I think you're right here but I dunno if he can produce receipts for the past year+flyers to prove his earnings in Lieu.
If he had a booking agent this would all be stored safely, so I guess I win the argument of whether to have a booking agent or not. My booking agent has records of every single gig of mine for at least the last 15 years.




They wouldn't let him reschedule, and they gave him 48 hours to pay back the money. The big deal here is they chose to pay back the promoters in Melbourne and Adelaide out of their own pockets, but that unintentionally screwed the rescheduling process.

See, if they would've just gone back and said "Louis missed the flights, he still has the deposit" The clubs most definitely would've be more open to rescheduling because they were down $12k. But they decided to pay back the clubs themselves and save their own rep (which they didn't even need to do, as I posted before, nobody turns down money) Then they come at Louis and tell him to repay them within 48 hours or else.

It's a matter of who was in the wrong first...Lil Louis kept the money, hence the promoters started a defamatory web site. Not the other way around - you seem to be suggesting since Lil Louis' rep took a hit, he ought to keep the money.

Nobody gets paid on lost earnings. If I don't show up to work tomorrow, I don't get paid. I don't see why it should be any other way.

Only way I would side with Lil Louis is if it was clear the promoters were negligent with their flight scheduling.

He didn't "mess up" at the airport. The airline did.



That's called blackmail



Don't forget their many libels, their illegal lying on immigration forms (and encouraging LL to help them deceive immigration and evade taxes), their posing on RA as unconnected bystanders, etc.

They could certainly make for a good tumblr too.

You have no idea "who was in the wrong". You've heard one side of the story, and that side has proven to be nearly pathological in its dishonesty.

Go look up some standard performance contracts and tell us what the consensus is on what happens to the deposit when weather or airline snafus prevent the performer from arriving in time.

The topic has gone viral in the dance community. Just as many, if not more, accounts have been created to say pretty much the same skewering LL. But nobody is accusing all of them of being sockpuppets of the promoters (despite the fact that the promoters have been PROVEN to post here under false pretenses, unlike LL)

"blackmail is a crime involving unjustified threats to make a gain or cause loss to another unless a demand is met"
In this case the demand is asking for money that is not belonged to somebody to be returned. Blackmail normally focuses more on a situation to gain something from somebody on the basis of using a personal secret of there's against them. Keeping someone else' s money is not a personal secret.
The airline did not mess up, have you read the blog? its got screen shots of the plane on time and LL's bags made it to Oz. He missed the connection when he went to collect bags that were not missing. He also had the chance to take the next flight. Maybe you should read the blog before posting.
With the visa, I still dont agree it holds water, he agreed to go along with it without issue and did not debate it.

He could have said no to the visa set-up, 38 years in the biz and a big boy well able to demand basketball courts but can't say nothing about the visa? the second he started the journey means he really wasn't that bothered about Australian immigration.
I think comparing rape to this MJ is a bit over the top my brother. We are talking fiances here, not rape. I understand your example, but in that logic you could flex an argument over any pre-warned injustice. The pre warning here was done on the basis of theft and not harming someone physically for no reason.
They would not let him schedule based on his wanting to keep the monies and then re-schedule.
Every artist should have a booking agent, specially ones that clearly can't handle themselves.

I would like to ask you though MJ, as an artist long time in the game, what would you have done in LL's boots on the basis you went to the airport and did not question the visa?

By the way folks, its nearly Christmas, I hope "the talent" and promoters can look into their hearts and fix all of this. Life is so so short. We all got feelings, we all someones kid.

That's a great question but hard for me to answer because A. I'm deathly afraid of ANY immigration issues in ANY country and B. My Agent would NEVER let me get on a plane without proper documentation.

I also ALWAYS carry my laptop on the flight with me so I can burn new music on the fly if they screw up my bags. As I mentioned earlier tin this thread my CD's got lost enroute to a Munich gig this year, but I was able to burn a set on the fly that turned out to be probably my best set of the year.

BUT, lol. Putting all that aside, if I'm in Louis's shoes and I have no idea how strict Aussie immigration is. And I miss the 1st connection, I call BOTH Chicago and Australia and ask them if they can possibly get a computer set up somewhere. I take the makeup flight the next day after calling Chicago and telling them to upload some of my important music. If I miraculously make it through Aussie immigration without a hitch (and that's a VERY big *if*) I get to Australia to a waiting computer and start downloading and burning music. Now variables in this is I don't know if Louis has anyone at home or even has keys to his house, so if nobody's there he has to play someone else's music.

Another thing. If I get to Australia and I'm banned for life, obviously nothing goes down and I get sent on my merry way back to America. If I get banned for life because of promoter fuckup, there's got to be some kind of compensation.

All very valid points.

What youtube would you dedicate to this whole thread?
My pick was Timmy Thomas, "why can't we live together".

War-Why Can't We Be Friends

ODB - Got Your Money


sorry had to

omg

a joke, of course.

And you registered in Nov 2012 which automatically renders your opinion invalid

Without seeing the contract, you have no idea whose money it is.



I have. And at this point, I think we can all see that it is highly edited (missing contract, missing information about promoting LL's appearance before he confirmed, missing correspondence about immigration fraud, missing proof of accusations about LL being known for screwing other promoters, etc)



Maybe you should read the entirety of this thread before posting. His bag (which he would need to collect and recheck in Toronto) DID go missing. See the documents from AC presented on page 4 of this thread. Air Canada said: "Passengers Bag Cannot Be Located in System" (that is "missing" by my dictionary...). Those barcodes are scanned at every point in the journey... and the airline says that it was missing.

Also, the airline said on those documents that the flight was "delayed" in its arrival. (And he may have needed to collect a bag that could not be located before getting to the next flight to recheck it to Vancouver.)

A DELAY and a bag that Cannot Be Located in System are indeed the fault of the airline, not LL.

Er, bizarre logic. Are all the opinions form the accounts on the other side of the debate who registered recently also deemed invalid?

Like Marshall, I saw the blog and subsequently this thread on deephousepage. So, I registered and added my 10 cents.

Eagerly awaiting the results of your contract research.

Willie Hutch - Brothers Gonna Work it Out

http://youtu.be/_rY3F-67kh8

respect

Yeah, pretty much. Every Nov 2012 account in this thread is either Lil Louis' publicist or one of the promoters' aliases.

Anyways I agreed with you more or less. I said if it was proven that it was the promoter's fuckup, then Lil Louis should be compensated. But that must be proven ofc, otherwise from what I see now it appears to be Lil Louis' screwup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYhAuEaZIPA

Maybe this entire thread has been a conversation between Karim and Louis under multiple aliases!

Columbo might be in over his head on this one, better bring in the big guns!